Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

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mwilloam
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Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by mwilloam »

I'm recording MIDI from the Roland kit and it sends MIDI data on CC#4 for the position of the Hi-Hat pedal. How can I map this to the proper note(F#->Bb etc). I've found plugins like addictive drums do this with a setting. Don't mind manually doing it if it's possible for other sounds I use within M53. Thanks!
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monkey man
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by monkey man »

CCs aren't mapped to any notes, so no need to worry. The stream (in this case, CC04) is active on a per-channel basis. With drum VIs, I imagine, the notes that respond to it would have to be specified within the engine.

I'd like to know how the HH foot pedal works in SSD, but am hoping I'll figure it out once I get the plug registered (long story).

That's a helluva kit you've got there. I've used TD brains for a long time, but haven't yet been able to afford a kit to plug into them yet. Lucky bugger.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
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mwilloam
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by mwilloam »

Ha thanks. But actually it's not mine(my drummer's) and I just realized it is the td-30k, no V, but same brain. So yes, I guess we are both a little lucky.

I did something ingenious(looked in the M5-3 manual) and saw that Star Drums has mappings for V-drums as well as other stuff as well and can handle Hi-Hat via CC#. To get to this you have to choose you go to the "Event" tab with the kit photo and choose "Settings" in the upper left. There you see options for different kits. That said, I haven't got it to work fully still.

In terms of the TD-30 and what it sends for MIDI, I finally figured out last night. It sends 2 different notes for the Hi-Hat bell and rim(3 included pedal sound). But it does NOT send a separate not for CLOSED/OPEN. That is strictly handled by the pedal sending info on CC#4. The lower the #, the more open it is supposed to be. I think by default everything about 90 is supposed to be fully closed. So that said, what M5 supposedly will do, and I've seen this in the Addictive Drums demo, is key switch depending on CC#4. Again, doesn't seem to be working but that's the idea.

I started looking into writing a MachfiveScript with Lua to handle this but I'd rather save that for the day job.
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monkey man
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by monkey man »

Yep. That all sounds about right.

Apparently, above CC04 value 90 (using default settings on the brain) is where the hat-closed tension is emulated. The closed sound rises in pitch slightly and sounds "tighter", as if you're pressing the cymbals together with the pedal. Somehow I doubt many VIs will produce this effect; it's more likely, IMHO, that a standard transition from open to closed will be spread across the range you define. In the case of your drummer's brain's setup, this might mean specifying a range of 00 (01?) to 90 rather than all the way up to 127.

Let us know how you go, eh? It'll provide info for others who might find themselves in the same situation.

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mwilloam
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by mwilloam »

You are correct, that is the setting he has it at(what it came defaulted at, 90 for CC#4). For shits and giggles and for the sake of leaning something I started a MachFiveScript that will dynamically change the pitch of the trigger note based on the current value of a CC, this case #4. Here is just the initial pass:

Code: Select all

hhPosistion = 127

function onController(e)
  if e.controller == 4 then
    hhPosistion = e.value
  end
  postEvent(e) 
end

function onNote(e)
  local noteOffset = math.floor( (hhPosistion / 127) * 4 )
  playNote(e.note - noteOffset, e.velocity, -1)
end
Here I'm just testing with the pitch lowering(ie Bb1 -> A1 -> Ab1 -> G1 -> Gb1) based on where the Hi Hat is at. In this case the ranges would be 0-25, 26-51, 52-77, 78-103, 104-127 or close to that. Technically, you could have, for the sake of getting crazy, 128 positions from fully closed to open and give them each a pitch and move through them with the pedal control data. Am I going to sample his Hi-Hat and do that, perhaps not .... am I maybe going to do that, anything is possible. :D . All that said, just having 5 zones would be decent I think for start. And since they will all be grouped the unique pitch a stomped pedal transmits will cutoff any sounding note. We'll see. I'll post anything I find or if others have thoughts or idea let me know!
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monkey man
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by monkey man »

Thanks, please do that.

Good luck, mate.

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rentadrummer
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by rentadrummer »

I'm not sure if this applicable or not, but here goes....

I have a TD-20 and a VH-12 hi hat, and when I record I'll occasionally need to tighten the hat sound after recording. I've been doing this by viewing the CC4 at the bottom of the Drum Editor window, and if viewed by "lines" I can clearly see the level of the open/closed position. I select various points and raise the line closer to 120 before it gives me a good closed sound. I don't think I've ever had a tight closed sound at 90, or even 100, at least using the Roland sounds.

Something to consider is the Hi Hat Offset setting under the Trigger menu. If I'm using the internal sounds, I have the offset set at -5, but if I try to trigger the sounds in Superior 2 with this setting, it doesn't trigger the open/closed sounds properly so I have the hi hat offset somewhere around -40.

Are you playing on pads to trigger the sounds of the TD-30 or triggering the sounds by some other method?
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mwilloam
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by mwilloam »

rentadrummer wrote:I'm not sure if this applicable or not, but here goes....

I have a TD-20 and a VH-12 hi hat, and when I record I'll occasionally need to tighten the hat sound after recording. I've been doing this by viewing the CC4 at the bottom of the Drum Editor window, and if viewed by "lines" I can clearly see the level of the open/closed position. I select various points and raise the line closer to 120 before it gives me a good closed sound. I don't think I've ever had a tight closed sound at 90, or even 100, at least using the Roland sounds.

Something to consider is the Hi Hat Offset setting under the Trigger menu. If I'm using the internal sounds, I have the offset set at -5, but if I try to trigger the sounds in Superior 2 with this setting, it doesn't trigger the open/closed sounds properly so I have the hi hat offset somewhere around -40.

Are you playing on pads to trigger the sounds of the TD-30 or triggering the sounds by some other method?
Interesting info thanks! I'll have to take a look at the settings. The kit is at the drummer's house, not mine. I get what you mean about tweaking the CC data to get a tighter sound. I already figured I could use DPs functions to scale the numbers up.

To trigger we are simply using the kit that came with the TD-30v, so Roland pads. The hi-hat is the V-11 I think. I'll try the negative offset and see if that helps for either.
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monkey man
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Re: Roland TD-30kv Hi-Hat mapping, CC#4 to notes?

Post by monkey man »

Yep. That tighter sound is the HH pressure-factor I explained.

By default, it's more-or-less closed at 90. Raising the CC value increases the pressure between the cymbals.

Mac 2012 12C Cheese Grater, OSX 10.13.6
MOTU DP8.07, MachFive 3.2.1, MIDI Express XT, 24I/O
Novation, Yamaha & Roland Synths, Guitar & Bass, Kemper Rack

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