Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

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bayswater
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Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by bayswater »

I've started looking around at what is available to replace my late 2009 iMac before the battery and drive start giving me problems. Prices are way up from the last time I bought any computer. Even a non pro iMac i7 with 16G RAM and current specs is about twice what I paid for mine.

I considered a PC after hearing about how you can get twice the performance for half the cost, but when I did comparisons, there was rarely more than a couple of hundred dollars in it, particularly if you have to pay for Windows. If anyone knows better, please point me in the right direction.

Another option is a refurbed late 2015 4Ghz i7 iMac with a fusion drive. Anyone got one of these? The RAM is easy to replace, but I don't know about the drive.

Or, a maxed out MINI, and use my iMac as a monitor. Is that easy and practical to do?
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HCMarkus
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by HCMarkus »

What's your budget?

Right now, you can put together a basic hex Mac Pro 5,1 for very little:
2009 4,1 quad $400 or less, then Flash EFI to 5,1
Drop in X5680 3.33 used $60
Add Server Memory from Ebay
SSD/HD of choice

Admittedly old. Undeniably great bang for the buck.
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bayswater
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by bayswater »

Budget is not fixed. I want something that does the job. After that, value for money is the main thing. The current 27" iMac i7 with 32G RAM and a 500G SSD is about C$4300, which seems over the top to me, for what it is. More than twice what I paid for the one I have now.

Do you think the 5,1 will be usable in the long term? Or will it hit a brick wall at OS X 10.15, DP 12, etc? Will it take 32G RAM?

In the short term, I could get an SSD and new battery for my iMac and keep it limping along for a while, but something with at least USB3 would be really nice.
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HCMarkus
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by HCMarkus »

bayswater wrote:Budget is not fixed. I want something that does the job. After that, value for money is the main thing. The current 27" iMac i7 with 32G RAM and a 500G SSD is about C$4300, which seems over the top to me, for what it is. More than twice what I paid for the one I have now.

Do you think the 5,1 will be usable in the long term? Or will it hit a brick wall at OS X 10.15, DP 12, etc? Will it take 32G RAM?

In the short term, I could get an SSD and new battery for my iMac and keep it limping along for a while, but something with at least USB3 would be really nice.
The wall is almost undoubtedly looming at 10.14 or 10.15 for the 5,1. Whether that will render it obsolete in the studio is an entirely different question, as DP may well support even Sierra for many years to come. 32G Ram is the maximum a single CPU 5,1 can handle. Dual CPU 5,1s can take up to 64Gigs.
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by bayswater »

HCMarkus wrote:The wall is almost undoubtedly looming at 10.14 or 10.15 for the 5,1. Whether that will render it obsolete in the studio is an entirely different question, as DP may well support even Sierra for many years to come. 32G Ram is the maximum a single CPU 5,1 can handle. Dual CPU 5,1s can take up to 64Gigs.
Yes, I suppose DP would keep working for many years and versions of OS X. It runs now on 10.6.8. But some of the major plugins and VIs might not. I used Logic when working with others who don't have DP, and that certainly won't survive the update.
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by mikehalloran »

I have a guy who charges $75 to replace the NV RAM battery and install an SSD in a 2009 or 2010 27” iMac if I supply the parts. Installing the SSD is easy but replacing the battery involves pulling the Logic board—this is unique to the 2009–10.

If buying used, the best bang for the buck is a 2011 27” i7. Easy to hotrod and, like the 2010, has an extra SATA port that Apple never used. Unlike the 2010, the battery is easy to change as is pulling the HHD and swapping for a 2T SSD. Also, the 2011 has Thunderbolt and two 6G SATA III busses (the optical bus is still SATA II). By comparison, your 2009 has two SATA II busses and my 2010 has three of the same. OWC can convert that spare SATA bus to eSATA which is what I had done to my 2010.

I regret not making a video when I upgraded my wife’s 2011 to show how easy it is. Since I had already done a few before hers, it took me a half hour one handed. I installed the SSD on my 2010 but balked at the battery since there were parts of that operation that required two hands.

My next iMac will have a 5K display. It depends on my budget whether it will be a Pro or not. My day job has kicked me upstairs as I near retirement plus I can’t write off employee business expenses beginning 2018 so it’s gonna take a good project for me to justify the expense. Damn.

The Apple Refurb Store often has great deals. If a Mac is returned for any reason, discontinued models and close-outs, too. Full 1-year warranty that you can extend through AppleCare to 3 years. You cannot customize it—what you see is what you get. For example, if it comes with a Magic Mouse and short keyboard, you can’t swap them for a trackpad and numeric keyboard though you can add them to the order (and sell the parts you don’t want on eBay as I did. AppleCare covers all Apple branded accessories made with the purchase and a few others made within the year lime a Time Capsule.

I would not buy anything with a Fusion Drive and not just because of the issues with OS 10.13—HHDs make iMacs run hotter and have a shorter life. Up till now, the largest SSD you can have from Apple is 1T. These can be upgraded by any decent tech but external TB and USB 3 docks are readily available so why bother? External SSDs are SATA III which is a little faster than USB 3 and the bottleneck speed with Thunderbolt.
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by mikehalloran »

The 2012–2017 iMacs have various enhancements (including 5K drives on many models) but all have the following in common: the glass is now an integral part of the screen—no more magnets and screws; instead, double-sticky foam tape holds everything together, USB 3 instead of USB 2, no optical drive (and its associated SATA II bus). One SATA III bus and many have a second SSD bus including all equipped with Fusion drives.

I can take them apart but need a steady pair of hands to install new foam tape.

Since they all have USB 3 and TB, if shopping used, I'd look for one with a 1T SSD and not a Fusion drive. Again, use an external dock to add storage.
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by mikehalloran »

Regarding the NV RAM battery, I am making a service call to replace one in an early 2009 24" iMac this afternoon. They do fail and an iMac won't boot with a bad one. It would boot if the battery was missing but settings would not be saved.

Since I will be there, I'm going to try the hack to see if I can make High Sierra run on this puppy as its owner is most concerned about the recent security news. El Cap is the last OS it can run without the hack. Should be interesting...

http://dosdude1.com/highsierra/
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by bayswater »

Yes, if I don't find a reasonable alternative, updating my iMac is what I'll have to do. I've looked at the OWC videos and I can do that. But the limits of USB 2 makes that a less attractive option.

The reason I'd swap out the drive on a refurbished iMac for an SSD is to get the quick startup. For that 500G is fine, and everything else can go on external drives via one of the newer faster connections.
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bayswater
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by bayswater »

mikehalloran wrote:They do fail and an iMac won't boot with a bad one. It would boot if the battery was missing but settings would not be saved.
Well, time to get going on this. Mine is original. Coming up on 9 years old.
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by mikehalloran »

Amazon has kits with the correct thermal sensor and adapter with various sized SSDs:
https://www.amazon.com/OWC-Complete-Bun ... B2009&th=1

The 2009-2010 thermal sensor is becoming rare. I don't see it anymore without being part of a kit.

The OE battery is a BR2032 but a 2009 doesn't get hot enough to require it. The common CR2032 works just fine before 2011 in an iMac.
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Re: Refurbished iMac? PC? MINI?

Post by bayswater »

Thanks for the link. I'd have to get it from OWC. Amazon won't ship it to Canada.
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