2017 iMac not reliable with USB Dock, regardless of price

Macintosh software/hardware discussion and troubleshooting

Moderator: James Steele

User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

2017 iMac not reliable with USB Dock, regardless of price

Post by mhschmieder »

I have not had a successful Time Machine backup completion in slightly over a month now. I have wasted countless hours researching possible causes, and feel the bottom line may be that I will not be able to get this to work again until I spend $300 to buy that new OWC Thunderbolt hub.

The problem is that the 2017 iMac only has four USB slots. One is needed for my RME Fireface UFX, one for my main data drive, one for my library drive, and that means everything else has to connect to my USB hub, including my Time Machine drive.

As the failure of Time Machine is often accompanied by a "Disk Not Ejected Properly" message, I suspect that this indirect connection of the 10TB USB3 drive from G-tech is the real cause, combined with macOS updates in October (as I had no trouble from June when I bought the iMac).

What I have done each time is to delete the unfinished backup file, which follows Apple's advice (I can't easily find that webpage at the moment as I lost two hours tonight going through months of browsing history to get back all of my lost tabs after yet another minute finger slip on the Magic Mouse caused me to select Opera's "Delete All Other Tabs" instead of "Delete Tab" -- terrible GUI design decision to place them right after each other -- and incrementally restoring recently closed tabs stopped after a dozen or so, whereas this worked in previous Opera updates even though it takes a long time of course).

Disk Utility also often refuses to cleanup the disc when I try. There is plenty of space; it has 5 GB on it and the backups, even after a month, should be well under 1 GB -- especially when considering that Library, Downloads, and a few other things are excluded (plus TM itself).

Has anyone else had this problem after recent software updates, or when using a hub to connect their TM drive?
Last edited by mhschmieder on Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Time Machine has failed since end of October 2017

Post by mikehalloran »

Why not use Ethernet? $130 for 3T – $300 for 8T.
https://www.amazon.com/Cloud-Personal-N ... B00EVVGAC6
Setting up NAS is a bit of a pain and you don’t have to but TimeMachine is quite easy right out of the box. Unless I need wireless, these are my go-to.


Ethernet or 802.11ac wireless $279
https://www.apple.com/shop/product/FE18 ... apsule-3tb


Unlike the current tower, it’s quite easy to replace the HHDs in the the older Apple low profile Time Capsules. Ethernet is just as fast but wireless is much slower than the towers. I use these drives—low heat, heavy duty bearings:
https://www.amazon.com/Red-6TB-Hard-Dis ... 2B6tb&th=1

You can copy the backup files from one TM drive to another. Google is your friend.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Time Machine has failed for me since end of October 2017

Post by mhschmieder »

Thanks, Mike -- I've always been intimidated by NAS as I don't have time for a steep learning curve on things I perceive as moving targets, and I haven't had much Dev Ops support the past few years so it's 100% on my shoulders. But you've given me some good starting point for getting into it.

I should know shortly whether my last gasp efforts succeed or not. I unplugged my Fireface so that my TM drive can make a direct connection to the computer, went to super-user mode to clean the temporary unfinished backups that failed, rebooted, and am waiting for the next TM backup attempt to start.

I cannot figure out how to force an immediate TM backup anymore; this used to be part of the interface design for the TM feature set.

I also succeeded in doing a disc cleanup finally -- I guess it was working all along, but when there are no ellipses or other indicators that something is happening vs. a freeze-up, I tend to give up. There was at least a ten minute gap between each line that shows in the user feedback section of the Disk Utility cleanup command. I do know that TM backups are compressed and thus have to uncompress for cleanup to act, but you'd think there would be some progress indicator!

It's interesting that TM worked fine until my annual family trip to Boston, which was exactly eight days in length, which is the longest my new computer has been down at one time. But I think I did some updates when I got back, so it's hard to say what combination of factors is at fault.

Anyway, we shall soon see whether the next scheduled TM backups fail or not. It could be due to Sleep Mode, as I cannot figure out how to defeat that on the G-Tech drives and/or using external drives from Sierra on an iMac. For many years, it was a non-issue as I only used internal drives with the MacPro, except for periodic manual backups to external drives (which were internal drives that I put in a host enclosure during backups).
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mhschmieder »

It worked this time. I'll move the cables around again, as I of course need the audio interface to be as reliable as possible, and then see if the next TM backup fails. If so, I'll buy the OWC hub (though it isn't marked down today) and consider NAS long-term as well.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
rentadrummer
Posts: 537
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Dallas

Re: Time Machine has failed for me since end of October 2017

Post by rentadrummer »

mhschmieder wrote: I cannot figure out how to force an immediate TM backup anymore; this used to be part of the interface design for the TM feature set.
If you have the preference set to show TM in the menu bar and click on the TM icon, one of the options is "back up now".
Ron
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mikehalloran »

What Ron says. It’s in the drop down menu but only if you have it showing in the menu bar.

You do not have to configure the WD MyCloud for NAS — you can if you want to and WD has phone support for that. Instructions for Time Machine are included and take just a few minutes.

It took WD awhile to realize that Time Machine was a good market for this product especially with Apple announcing that the 3T tower was never going to be updated. 8T for less money? The only down side is no wireless and you don’t need a current gen. Time Capsule to get an 802.11ac router anymore.

Apple had announced that the Time Capsule was to be discontinued last year. They reassigned the development team including my son-in-law. Apparently it’s still selling well so Apple has kept it in production. Unlike the older, low profile TCs, the drives are a bear to replace — you need good dexterity and have to modify the lower mount to accept a WD Red. I’d rather pay to have it done than ever work on another.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mhschmieder »

Thanks, Ron. They changed the icon so I didn't recognize it anymore! I thought it was one of my many "library updaters" like Gobbler that keep asserting themselves up there even though I prefer to have a very minimal right-hand side to the menu bar.

The new backup failed, as expected. I guess there's something about cheap USB hubs that don't regulate the voltage well enough for large external drives -- especially during heavy read/write cycles.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mhschmieder »

Useful advice, Mike -- thanks. I'll try to look into this a bit more before Cyber Monday. Black Friday is a bust for computer stuff; the so-called "sale" prices are the regular prices, simply accented by the "Black Friday" banner. :-)
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mhschmieder »

I've finished researching the suggestions and the issues, and have concluded that I must buy the new OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock, which is not on sale but maybe will be discounted on Cyber Monday from its $300 regular price:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3DK13PSL/

The older and much cheaper USB-C Dock is not considered compatible with 2017 iMac's, but if you don't mind it in rose-gold, can be had today for $88:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TCDOCK11PRG/

I will just do manual Time Machine backups for now, which means not as frequently (unfortunately).

Eventually, I may move to an NAS system, but I want to first see what Apple does next year with their towers, as the iMac may end up being a placeholder computer for me long-term.

If I get the Thunderbolt 3 Dock, then the TM drive will plug in to the USB port that the current $20 USB 7-port Dock plugs in, and the OWC Dock will plug into the Thunderbolt connect on the back of the iMac (currently unused).

The OWC Docks also take care of my USB charging issue, without having to buy a dinky little specialty advice that may not last.

It just seems like overkill, as I doubt I'll ever need FW800, miniDisplay, or S/PDIF connections ever again. Maybe OWC will come out with a lower-connectivity budget version soon?
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mhschmieder »

My $300 OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock arrived today, and I set it up, excited to see if I could finally do Time Machine and standard backups again for the first time in three months (!).

Unfortunately, the new doc is only a slight improvement on the old one in terms of drive connectivity persistence and reliability. I wonder if iMac's simply require direct-only connections for Time Machine drives?

It got further than before, but failed near the end, and then turned off ALL of my drives, or else the hub/dock just isn't reliable for connecting hard drives. So I plugged all hard drives directly into the iMac, along with the RME Fireface (I'd be afraid to route audio through a dock), and a couple hours later, Time Machine finished with no errors -- for the first time in three months!

Now I can do REGULAR backups as well. I couldn't since October due to drive connections not persisting long enough to finish the job.

The $300 Thunderbolt 3 Dock is much nicer than my $30 seven-port hub from Sabrent, but is a lot of money for something that is simply off-loading the iLok, eLicenser, USB printer, and USB CD/DVD/BluRay drive, along with finally having dependable recharging for the keyboard and mouse.

I'll have to unplug the audio interface while doing the standard backup, unless that works via the Thunderbolt 3 Dock. It's worth chancing it, but I have low confidence that docks work with drives.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: FIXED: Time Machine has failed for me since end of OCT 2

Post by mhschmieder »

Grr, even after two reboots, and switching the Thunderbolt ports, the USB Thunderbolt 3 Dock won't reconnect to the iMac, in spite of its green and blue lights both indicating otherwise.

System Information doesn't show anything connected to Thunderbolt. Maybe they included a spotty cable? I've been very careful to have tight connections, but the iMac itself might be "loose" in the design department, as MPG and other sites complain about this.

The OWC device mostly gets one star out of five due to so many issues. What a waste of $300! I can't get any work done because it doesn't see my iLok or eLicenser or anything else connected. I can't keep hot-swapping things on the iMac's meager four USB ports constantly!

The hard drives MUST stay connected to the iMac now, so that they don't sleep or lose their connection. I still haven't found a way to prevent this, nor has expert MPG (Digilloyd). But I didn't expect the same thing to happen to EVERYTHING connected via a USB Dock. It's worse now with Thunderbolt 3 than before with the $30 USB3 Dock.

Unfortunately, if I swap back, I lose one of the four USB ports and am back in a pickle regarding Time Machine and direct-copy backup drives.

I had no idea things would get so bad after switching from a MacPro to an iMac! I foolishly thought that technology mostly progresses and that the iMac is a viable solution today. Clearly it is not, if we are limited to a maximum of four external devices, including CD, printer, hard drives, and USB dongles, due to there apparently not being a viable dock solution.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: 2017 iMac not reliable with USB Dock, regardless of pric

Post by mhschmieder »

I unplugged the dock last night and waited until right before turning on the computer today to plug it back in. So far it is working consistently and not going to sleep (I am backing up 9 TB of sample libraries at the moment), so regular backups seem safe through this device, even if Time Machine can't be done that way.

Also, my dongles are seen again, so I think macOS has a serious flaw right now with Thunderbolt 3 (aka USB-C), just as several; expert sites have stated (though maybe it's fixed in High Sierra?). It seems that it sends things to sleep on USB-C and never brings them back, so only unplugging that device can help (this dock doesn't have a power switch).

If this is a reliable workaround, I can live with it, but I definitely won't dare to have my audio interface be one of the devices that connects via the dock. Just the two dongles, the printer, and the CD/DVD/BluRay drive, with the front USB slot reserved for battery recharging and for the non-TM backup drives any time those are updated/rotated (which is semi-frequent).

Hopefully the device will continue working long enough for me to also do a data backup today, as that drive is months out of date now. As Time Machine worked yesterday, at least I have those project backups if necessary, but I have done a LOT of work these past few months and was living on the edge as I couldn't do any backups except media-based project-specific since October.

Of course, I'm afraid to do any recording during the backups today, so it's another day down. I'm noticing the internet is sluggish while the Thunderbolt 3 Dock is active, even though I'm not using its Ethernet port. This is also talked about at many sites, and is apparently an Apple bug. So I'm afraid if I use the audio interface even just for playback, that the Thunderbolt 3 Dock will seize up again.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: 2017 iMac not reliable with USB Dock, regardless of pric

Post by mhschmieder »

It was fine for a few hours, but the instant I clicked on someone's link to a Guardian UK obituary for Ray Thomas of Moody Blues, the Thunderbolt 3 Dock lost its connection to my iMac.

I'm going to have to be VERY careful about internet use while the Thunderbolt 3 Dock is in play -- not a problem while recording as I shut down the internet once licenses are validated anyway.

Unfortunately I've lost a lot of time now, as I was over-confident and did parallel copies vs. just one directory at a time, meaning those all have to be restarted -- this time, just one at a time.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
Macintosh2017
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:29 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: 2017 iMac not reliable with USB Dock, regardless of pric

Post by Macintosh2017 »

mhschmieder wrote:My $300 OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock arrived today, and I set it up, excited to see if I could finally do Time Machine and standard backups again for the first time in three months (!).

Unfortunately, the new doc is only a slight improvement on the old one in terms of drive connectivity persistence and reliability. I wonder if iMac's simply require direct-only connections for Time Machine drives?

It got further than before, but failed near the end, and then turned off ALL of my drives, or else the hub/dock just isn't reliable for connecting hard drives. So I plugged all hard drives directly into the iMac, along with the RME Fireface (I'd be afraid to route audio through a dock), and a couple hours later, Time Machine finished with no errors -- for the first time in three months!

Now I can do REGULAR backups as well. I couldn't since October due to drive connections not persisting long enough to finish the job.

The $300 Thunderbolt 3 Dock is much nicer than my $30 seven-port hub from Sabrent, but is a lot of money for something that is simply off-loading the iLok, eLicenser, USB printer, and USB CD/DVD/BluRay drive, along with finally having dependable recharging for the keyboard and mouse.

I'll have to unplug the audio interface while doing the standard backup, unless that works via the Thunderbolt 3 Dock. It's worth chancing it, but I have low confidence that docks work with drives.
I would use a dedicated port for image backups for sure.
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: 2017 iMac not reliable with USB Dock, regardless of pric

Post by mhschmieder »

The problem is that there are only four dedicated ports. One for the audio interface, one for the main data drive, one for the sample library drive, and one for the Time Machine backup drive.

That leaves the dongles out in the cold, and means any backup drive must be done via the dock, or else disconnect the audio interface while doing backups.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
Post Reply