New SSD: Did I mess up?

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Tobor
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New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by Tobor »

Hi, I just had a tech install a 1T Samsung EVO 850 drive in my 2011 iMac. This particular model had an extra slot for a hard drive so I kept the existing drive and DVD burner and added the EVO.

I cloned my MBP which had a lean and mean series of installs and is working well. I cloned that file into my new SSD, but now was surprised that I can't access my old internal drive. Thought I would use that for audio files once I get the SSD functioning properly, but now I can't see it when booted in the SSD. (Makes sense I guess since it's not a partition, but...)

Also having trouble with authorizations. I had assumed that although the clone came from my MBP that the auths would automatically load in the SSD as it is the same physical computer now. Some VIs have transitioned smoothly with an update or quick authorization process, but it looks like many more will have to be re-authorized. Before I wander through that fence, I was wondering if I should start over with the SSD and if there is an easier way (is Migration Assistant any different than cloning?) to get up and running.

Also my Waves and iLok treat the SSD as a new computer as well I think. It would be great to just go back and forth between my boot drives without having to move licenses and unplug iLoks!!

Anyway any tips would be welcome! I did enable trim on the new SSD, yes, my tech guy said it wasn't necessary as well.

Before he installed the drive the tech asked if I wanted to make it into a Fusion drive along with the original internal drive, maybe I should have done that. Is it too late? Would this be advisable now?
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by HCMarkus »

Pretty sure Mike is gonna' recommend starting over and using Migration Assistant. Not sure that taking a boot drive clone from a different model Mac is a good idea... this may be why you cannot see the other internal drive.

Enabling Trim is a very good idea. If you understand how SSDs work, you understand why this is so.

I would not recommend a Fusion Drive setup for a DAW; I'm sure it would work fine (I'm running a Fusion Drive setup on my general use laptop without any problems), but with a 1TB SSD, it should be unnecessary.

I've noticed different softwares' authorization processes are triggered by different things. For instance, when I exchanged the CPU trays between my two 4,1 Mac Pros, FXpansion was the only software that required re-authorization.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

HCMarkus wrote: I've noticed different softwares' authorization processes are triggered by different things. For instance, when I exchanged the CPU trays between my two 4,1 Mac Pros, FXpansion was the only software that required re-authorization.
Authorizations can be HD specific but also machine specific. Just cloning a drive doesn't mean it will act the same way. Yeah, I'd also think that migration assistant in this case might work better than a clone. I'd run disk utility to see if it passes the smell test there.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by Tobor »

Thanks guys, yes I think I should start over. When I boot up in my old internal drive I can see the SSD, but not vice versa. It's acting like two separate machines.

Two things, then. Should I migrate from my MBP clone (pretty lean and mean), or from my old internal drive (more data than 1T, so can I choose what to migrate? I've never seen a menu when I've done it before). Now in writing this I'm guessing that I should migrate from the same computer to preserve family unity.

And two, what's the easiest way to scrub the SSD and start over with a clean OS?

Thanks again, really helpful.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by Tobor »

Hi, following up this morning....

Looks like I've got a good idea how to perform a clean install on the SSD (looks like I've got High Sierra in the can ready to go, and I was planning on updating anyway).

Then Migration Assistant. Looking at the incredible bloat of my current internal disks' Application Folder, I think I'll try Migrating from the MBP clone first. And perhaps since I'm initiating it from my iMac, it will still recognize this computer's authorizations.

If I import the user data from the clone, will the SSD still recognize the iMac re: auths? One way to find out I guess.

Once everything is finally set up, I'm sure it will work OK. But I'm sure I will be going back and forth between the boot drives often to grab documents and photos and preferences/presets etc. in the process, and it would be a nightmare to have to constantly re-authorize things such as iLok and what have you.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by James Steele »

Tobor wrote:...it would be a nightmare to have to constantly re-authorize things such as iLok and what have you.
Actually one of the things I personally love about iLok is that it's so easy as far as when you upgrade a machine, etc. So long as the iLok is plugged in to a USB port on the machine, your iLok protected plugs just work. No disc authorizations that can be inadvertently lost because you reformat a drive before removing authorizations, etc.

Yep... I'm a big fan of the dongle that so many love to hate. :)
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by mikehalloran »

Your SSD is High Sierra, yes?

A non APFS drive can't see an APFS drive.

This doesn't work well from my iPhone. I'll look again when home this evening.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by Tobor »

What I'm starting to realize is that if I move over to the new SSD as my main boot drive, I won't be able to access my old internal drive for data and documents, vi's or whatever. A significant loss of space for speed.

If so I guess I should just continue to use my current drive as boot, and use the new SSD as I a VI drive. I certainly need that space now with all the great libraries available. And it could be still be useful as a backup boot drive as need be.

This also simplifies things since I no longer have to worry about all the re-authorization puzzle , nor do I need to reinstall the OS or use Migration Assistant as the result would be the same: the SSD would still not recognize the old HD.

Am I right Mike?
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by mikehalloran »

There’s a reason that Apple never recommends clones.

Your SSD should be the boot drive. Your performance will run rings around having the HHD. Ideally it should be on the empty bus.

A 2011 27” has 3 SATA busses (as does a 2010). You can also piggyback the new drive onto one of the two busses that are there. I don’t know how you did it but that affects what’s happening now. The optical drive bus is SATA II; the other two are SATA III after a firmware update that should have happened years ago.

iLok doesn’t care what bus or which order the drives are. Many other Authorizations do.

To install the SSD onto the main bus, you need the OWC heat sensor and an adapter bracket. No need to do that till you replace the drive. As long as the HHD is installed, leave it alone.

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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by mikehalloran »

I ran my SSD on the spare bus for over a year before installing it inside of my 2010. The OWC eSATA mod uses that spare bus which is why it’s available on the 2010–2011 27" iMacs only.

Assuming that’s how you hooked it up, the best course is to boot from the HHD, reinstall the OS onto the SSD. You may get lucky. If not, try again but reformat the SSD first with Disk Utility and use Migration Assistant to pull the info from the HHD — this will be faster than a Time Machine Restore by a lot. Once done, you should see one from the other as expected.

De-authorize any internet Authorizations except DP 8/9 from the HHD. ILok isn’t affected and disk based auths will need to be redone or not depending on the company and app. Finale, if you have it can be corrected after the fact, nowadays but it’s less hassle to deactivate first.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by Tobor »

Thanks Mike!

LOL just wrote a lengthy post but you beat me to the punch and cleared up a number of questions.

As I suspected I'll have to go through the process of deactivating licenses so they can be reactivated. I guess I don't really mind as long as I only have to do it once.

But as long as I will be using Migration Assistant after I successfully reinstall the OS onto the SSD, why couldn't I Migrate from my MBP clone? Other than not recognizing the HHD after I cloned the clone onto the SSD, it seemed to be working well, only asking for authorizations. Again there is so much bloat on my HHD that I was hoping to load my leaner and meaner built from scratch system from my MacBook Pro.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by mikehalloran »

Going forward, you will need to replace that HHD. 5 years is pushing its life and most develop problems before that.

Unless you like the sound of fans going full throttle on boot up, avoid the the software hacks and get one of these for whatever you replace the drive with, HHD or SSD:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/contro ... ku=1068595

You can sometimes find it for a few bucks less on OWC or Amazon but this is the part you need for 2011 and later. Note: the 2009–2010 take a different part# and they are not interchangeable.

Replacing the HHD with an SSD will allow the fans to barely run and dramatically lower the heat output of your iMac. You will want one of these adapters to mount an SSD into the original bracket:
https://www.amazon.com/Fenlink-Internal ... ve+adapter

By lifting up the bottom of the screen and disconnecting two inline connectors, you have easy access to the NV RAM (PRAM) battery on top of the motherboard. Apple recommends using the OE type BR2032 battery on the 2011 and later due to its wider heat range tolerance over the ubiquitous CR2032.
https://www.amazon.com/PANASONIC-BR2032 ... rds=BR2032
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by mikehalloran »

Tobor wrote:Thanks Mike!

LOL just wrote a lengthy post but you beat me to the punch and cleared up a number of questions.

As I suspected I'll have to go through the process of deactivating licenses so they can be reactivated. I guess I don't really mind as long as I only have to do it once.

But as long as I will be using Migration Assistant after I successfully reinstall the OS onto the SSD, why couldn't I Migrate from my MBP clone? Other than not recognizing the HHD after I cloned the clone onto the SSD, it seemed to be working well, only asking for authorizations. Again there is so much bloat on my HHD that I was hoping to load my leaner and meaner built from scratch system from my MacBook Pro.
I would do Migration Assistant from the MBP, not a clone. Just make sure they’re both on the same network. Ethernet or Target Disk over TB will be much faster as the 2011 does not support the 802.11ac wireless upgrade that came out in 2013.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by Tobor »

Well, to update, I ended up erasing the SSD and starting over with a clean install and then migrating from my MBP. Some good, some bad, some confusing issues as I try to make sure everything works and/or is authorized.

Good news is it looks like iLok and Waves Central works across both drives without having to move licenses etc. iLok is interesting in that it looks like the computer specific authorizations show in both drives, although the SSD version thinks my iMac is 'Macbook Pro'. As long as it works, I guess.

Native Access/NI is a complete crashing mess, but I was wondering how it would react to most of the libraries being in different locations. Tech support from NI was very helpful and provided detailed info for uninstalling all NI data (8 locations!) and starting over. I'll tackle that today, fingers crossed.

I also have another question about Trim. I was going to jump on the Trim thread, but don't want to keep that one going LOL. When I went into Terminal to enable Trim this time around, I got a warning about possibly corrupting data on my non-SSD drive(s). Decided to bail. I have no qualms about enabling it for the Samsung EVO SSD, but the fact that my other internal drive (non-SSD) could be affected gives me pause. Should this be a concern?

Anyway again thanks for all the help to this point.
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Re: New SSD: Did I mess up?

Post by HCMarkus »

1. Trim does not impact spinners in any way. By definition, it can only be enabled for SSDs. The warning you saw, as I recall, actually advises that Trim can corrupt data on your SSDs. With the exception of one dramatic and insistent voice here at MOTUNation (a voice of trollish tone which has been removed by our fine administrator James Steele) I have yet to hear of any problems with Trim and any SSD in macOS. And I googled the subject with determination. The disclaimer is almost certainly an "Apple avoiding any potential lawsuits" move. If you are running Linux, there are (or were) some SSDs that could have issues with Trim.

2. NI needs to build an Uninstaller app YESTERDAY. I, too, have received pleasant customer support from NI, but when that support instructs me to go thru an incredibly burdensome task of uninstalling its software, my enthusiasm wanes.
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