Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012?

Macintosh software/hardware discussion and troubleshooting

Moderator: James Steele

User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012?

Post by FMiguelez »

Hi.
I need to check a couple of files in Finale. I have the 2012 version, but when I want to run it, I get the following message>

To open "Finale 2012" you need to install the legacy Jave SE 6 runtime.
Click "more info| to visit the legacy Java SE 6 download website.


I'm under the impression that Java 6 was demoted from OS for being quite unsafe? Is this really so? Is it safe to install that Java?

Thank you!
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
HCMarkus
Posts: 9712
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Contact:

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by HCMarkus »

I have it enabled to run CS6. Let's see what Mike says...

PS: The fact you are asking this question allows me to feel you are probably doing OK post-quake. This is good.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

SUN was bought by Oracle who now makes the rules concerning Java. For that reason, neither Apple nor Microsoft are allowed to include it in the OS (with Apple, that means Mavericks on). Understand that and the rest of this makes sense.

JRE (Java Runtime Environment) 6 is 32 bit only. JRE 8 is 64 bit only. The two do not conflict. The error messages usually say “Java Toolkit...” and are wrong unless you are a Java developer, then download the JDK. Otherwise, you want the JRE.

Although Apple cannot include it, they released a tweaked build that lets 32bit apps that require JRE 6 to run in Sierra and backwards (and High Sierra, too). You want the 2015-001 version here.
https://support.apple.com/downloads/java

2014-001 works in Yosemite and Mavericks only; 2015-001 supersedes it.

The latest JRE 8 is downloaded from Oracle only. Many web sites and some apps require it though you can set browsers to ask before using.
http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ ... 33155.html

Unfortunately, the JRE 8 installer wants to add a setting that makes Yahoo! Your default search engine. Unless you want this, make sure you uncheck that option when installing.

JRE 8 only installs a Java Control Panel in System Preferences. You can use it to check for the latest build and download the update if old.
Last edited by mikehalloran on Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

MakeMusic also has JRE 6 2015-001 for download. I don’t recall the link but it’s the same build.

Can you confirm that Finale 2012 installs in Yosemite? 2011 does not although works if installed in Mavericks and the OS is updated (to Sierra in my case). The 2011 license manager does not pass the serial number correctly to MM’s license server — per MM, there is no workaround. I tried to install 2011 on my 10.13 test drive, currently on Yosemite to be upgraded to High Sierra next week.

2012 may crash if Human Playback is enabled. The workaround is to disable it.

Finale 25 does not require a JRE to be installed but versions 2014.5 and older do require JRE 6 as do Adobe CS6, MasterWriter 2 and many other 32bit apps.
Last edited by mikehalloran on Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
FMiguelez
Posts: 8266
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Body: Narco-México Soul/Heart: NYC

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by FMiguelez »

Thank you so much for all this info, Markus and Mike.

With all this I will install it during the evening and report back.

Do you guys know how far back we can open old Finale files? I'm talking about opening Finale files from late last century. I hope Finale is as good as DP in back compatibility. I will find out soon enough, I suppose...
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

FMiguelez wrote:...
Do you guys know how far back we can open old Finale files? I'm talking about opening Finale files from late last century. I hope Finale is as good as DP in back compatibility. I will find out soon enough, I suppose...
If it's a .mus file, 2012 should open it, even if created by a newer version of Finale. 2014 & 25 create .musx but have the option of saving as 2012 compatible .mus.

Some very old files created in OS 8 or earlier might not have the .mus extension and there are workarounds.

If old files don't display properly, it's usually a font issue and substituting current Finale fonts is the first thing to try. Playback issues are often fixed by saving/exporting the data and opening in a new Finale file.

Here is the official Finale user support forum which is the best place to start if things don't behave:
https://makemusic.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... -Questions
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

When you do a major OS upgrade, you normally have to reinstall both versions of the JRE. Since JRE 6 2015-001 works in High Sierra and 10.13 is the last OS to run 32bit apps without compromise (as Apple puts it), it's unlikely that there will ever be a later build.

2012 uses Java for MusicXML and SmartScore Lite. The version of MusicXML that shipped with 2012 is pretty old and quite limited compared to v.3 that shipped w/ 2014.5.

MusicXML 3.1, released three months ago, is a really nice upgrade. To update Finale 2012 (2009–2014.5) to this latest version, download the Dolet 7 plug-in. It's free and highly recommended.
http://www.musicxml.com/dolet-plugin/do ... or-finale/

Even though other notation apps don't support 3.1 yet, I have found it quite useful.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mhschmieder »

I've written this up a gazillion times, but probably Mike covered everything -- am too tired after so many BART delays tonight due to police actions and the like. The main point is that Java 6 by Apple and Java 7+ (8, and soon 9) from Oracle deliberately live in different parts of the OS so that they won't ever conflict by trying to share dependencies, libraries, files, etc.

Java on the desktop is safe -- it's in the browser where there can be issues, but that's also true of just about ANY browser technology. Apple's Java was "incomplete" in that it depended on some "special" files and so developers had to clone that file in a particular way in order to build desktop apps that were truly standalone. And even at that, you still had to depend on an installed Java.

So, apps like Illustrator, Oxygen XML Editor, and Finale, have some specific legacy functions (not even sure what they are, but probably file export to XML), that haven't been updated in years, and which therefore still depend on Apple's mothballed Java, which Apple does at least try to keep running on new OS updates knowing that this is the case.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

mhschmieder wrote: So, apps like Illustrator, Oxygen XML Editor, and Finale, have some specific legacy functions (not even sure what they are, but probably file export to XML), that haven't been updated in years, and which therefore still depend on Apple's mothballed Java, which Apple does at least try to keep running on new OS updates knowing that this is the case.
Yes, 32 bit apps.

Interestingly, Finale Notepad 2012 requires JRE 6 also. It won’t install in High Sierra but still works if the OS is upgraded and 2015-001 is installed. MakeMusic pulled it and PrintMusic 2014.5 do to 10.13 incompatibility — I presume installation.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Once again, it looks like upgrading past the current OS is not a happening thing for me any time soon...
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Once again, it looks like upgrading past the current OS is not a happening thing for me any time soon...
As far as I can tell, Finale 2014.5 should behave exactly as it does in Sierra as long as it is already installed. If there's anything in particular you want me to test, let me know and I can verify. You have my email address if you need to attach a test file.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Thanks Mike. The lost license on reboot for DP is, of course, a deal breaker with High Sierra. That'll get fixed... I hope. Then again, things are humming along in Sierra so why fix it if it ain't broken? Anything earth shattering in High Sierra I just have to have?
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15133
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by mikehalloran »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Thanks Mike. The lost license on reboot for DP is, of course, a deal breaker with High Sierra. That'll get fixed... I hope. Then again, things are humming along in Sierra so why fix it if it ain't broken? Anything earth shattering in High Sierra I just have to have?
Perhaps, I updated to keep current with iOS 11 with its new storage sharing flexibility. There are a number of OS bug fixes but none have affected me.

DP is running faster on APFS. I keep my login in Notes so I can copy and paste on reboot.

Yahoo email is having minor issues — can't tell if it's 10.13 or Yahoo. I'm getting my email but can't send to Spam or delete. I'll give it a few days — I can always delete IMAP email on my iPad to have it gone from my Mac.

Adding an APFS partition is quite easy. Deleting an empty APFS partition that I created was a major PIA involving many steps running Disk Utility in the GUI and Terminal (both were required)... but I did it. I just wanted my 200G back.

Although I don't have CS6, my other 32 bit Adobe apps are fine.

For all of the talk, talk, talk, 10.13 is a minor upgrade for the average end user. Network admins have their work cut out for them as APFS has major changes under the hood where most mortals will never need look. It's the future for some very good reasons.

The big one will be 10.14 if it kills 32 bit.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by Gravity Jim »

mikehalloran wrote: DP is running faster on APFS. I keep my login in Notes so I can copy and paste on reboot.
It IS running faster, and loading way faster. I also keep my log-in on a Stickies note, so it takes me 5 seconds longer to launch in the mornings: not a deal-breaker for me. The advantages outweigh this tiny glitch, which MOTU will surely address shortly.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
MIDI Life Crisis
Posts: 26254
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Contact:

Re: Is it OK to install Legacy Java 6 to install Finale 2012

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Finale 2014.5 is the biggest concern. I can't go to F25 (no score to picture).
2013 Mac Pro 32GB RAM

OSX 10.14.6; DP 10; Track 16; Finale 26, iPad Pro, et al

MIDI LIFE CRISIS
Post Reply