FIXED: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new iMac

Macintosh software/hardware discussion and troubleshooting

Moderator: James Steele

User avatar
cuttime
Posts: 4291
Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by cuttime »

sdemott wrote:
Your issue sound suspiciously like a permissions issue. What did you use to clone your disk? I recommend downloading Onyx (https://www.titanium-software.fr/en/onyx.html) and letting it run maintenance (and fix permissions).

HTH
SD! Welcome back and please don't make yourself scarce. The latest version of Onyx has repair permissions removed. Thanks for your input, and prepare for some push back on your advice from some other esteemed members.
828x MacOS 13.6.5 M1 Studio Max 1TB 64G DP11.31
User avatar
sdemott
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by sdemott »

SD! Welcome back and please don't make yourself scarce. The latest version of Onyx has repair permissions removed. Thanks for your input, and prepare for some push back on your advice from some other esteemed members.
Thanks - it's been a long time. I'll be around more regularly.

Seems you're right. The latest version of Onyx has removed the Repair Permissions script. Unfortunate, because this issue screams of permissions issue...so now it has to be done the hard way.

If I had to guess, it's either: [1] the folder it is trying to write to exists, but with incorrect permissions or [2] the folder does not exist, but the containing folder where it is trying to write the folder has incorrect permissions. In both cases DSP-Quattro is being denied permission to do what it needs to.

I'd start looking ~/Library/Application Support or /Library/Application Support
-Steve
Not all who wander are lost.
User avatar
sdemott
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by sdemott »

one last thought for the evening:

it occurs to me that you might be able to launch if you delete preference files (~/Library/Preferences/DSP-Quattro 4 Preferences

and also move the DSP folder out of ~/Library/Application Support - just drop it on the Desktop for now to see if it helps.
-Steve
Not all who wander are lost.
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mhschmieder »

Aha! Finally someone chimes in with the name and location of the preferences file for DSP-Quattro!

This file does not exist on my system. I had searched hours for potentially mysterious names and locations, not realizing that it might be an obvious name and location after all, but simply missing.

Perhaps this itself is the "missing file" that gets reported at startup?

I can't do it tonight as my one external SATA host is full, and as I was unsuccessful in copying my old Time Machine internal SATA drive to my new TM external USB3 drive as the starting point for my new computer's backup (even if I identify those backups as being from a different computer).

I'll make a note to swap what is in my external SATA dock when I start the computer tomorrow, so that I can search Time Machine backups for an old copy of that preferences file for DSP-Quattro.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mhschmieder »

As for Cubase 9, all is fine now, after two hours of moving a few VST3 files at a time from quarrantine to the VST3 directory and restarting Cubase 9 each time.

I did find a few "surprise" 32-bit VST3 files that way, which I have deleted. Not sure why vendors even in recent months are producing these! In fact, I thought the VST3 format came after Apple went to 64-bits anyway.

After taking care of a half dozen or so strays left behind from demos, older version (vendors sometimes change names by adding or leaving out spaces between terms), and 32-bit plugs, I was left with one evil culprit that I can find no email records of having purchased but which also shows up in my Components folder for Audio Units.

Anyone heard of "MNTN"? A simple web search for "MNTN plug-in" immediately locates their website. It dates from October 2016, which in fact is when some troubles began on my old computer (now carried forward to the new computer). I really have no memory of even reading about this product, and can't imagine even having the inclination to give it a trial run.

I can't respond to my Steinberg ticket yet, as they have no mechanism for that via email or their website (no ticket shows up in my account; I simply have gotten three apology emails with a reference number and an acknowledgment). I try to close cases before vendors lose time, if I solve them on my own.

I also deleted a few VST's that got flagged by Steinberg as blacklisted -- most are 32-bits but it wasn't obvious, but surprisingly a couple were 64-bits. I deleted them anyway vs. moving to quarrantine, as those two (including Melodyne, of all things, and a brand-new update at that!) are products I'll likely receive newer updates to shortly, based on vendor development speed.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mhschmieder »

FYI FWIW: I have almost 900 plug-ins and VI's at this point.

I thought I had an active validation for Cubase, but I think when I did the 8.5 update shortly before the v9 upgrade, it must have started from scratch.

It can be a bit slow anyway, just like DP used to be in the old days. But it gives no feedback on VST3 issues; just VST2 issues. So I'll know the next time it flushes its validation cache to re-quarrantine all VST3's and move them a few at a time, like I did tonight.

My VST2 folder should be clean enough by now, with demos removed and the like, that it should pose no trouble for either BIAS Peak Pro 7 or DSP-Quattro.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
sdemott
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by sdemott »

mhschmieder wrote:Aha! Finally someone chimes in with the name and location of the preferences file for DSP-Quattro!

This file does not exist on my system. I had searched hours for potentially mysterious names and locations, not realizing that it might be an obvious name and location after all, but simply missing.

Perhaps this itself is the "missing file" that gets reported at startup?
If so, I would do a "Get Info" on the containing folder (Preferences) and at the very bottom of the Get Info window will be the permissions settings. The setting should be:

[YourUsername] - Read & Write
Staff - Read Only
Everyone - Read Only

Just confirm that. Because when an app can't write a pref file it's typically because the permissions are wrong.

HTH
-Steve
Not all who wander are lost.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mikehalloran »

sdemott wrote:
mhschmieder wrote:Aha! Finally someone chimes in with the name and location of the preferences file for DSP-Quattro!

This file does not exist on my system. I had searched hours for potentially mysterious names and locations, not realizing that it might be an obvious name and location after all, but simply missing.

Perhaps this itself is the "missing file" that gets reported at startup?
If so, I would do a "Get Info" on the containing folder (Preferences) and at the very bottom of the Get Info window will be the permissions settings. The setting should be:

[YourUsername] - Read & Write
Staff - Read Only
Everyone - Read Only

Just confirm that. Because when an app can't write a pref file it's typically because the permissions are wrong.

HTH
Those are called Privileges. Minor point, maybe but if you call them what Apple does, it's easier for others to know what you are talking about.

When you have granted Read & Write privileges to a Name, highlight the line and check the Apply to enclosed... box to grant the same to everything inside.
The latest version of Onyx has removed the Repair Permissions script. Unfortunate, because this issue screams of permissions issue...so now it has to be done the hard way.
It cannot be a permissions issue in Sierra. They don't exist to be repaired.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mikehalloran »

When you copy files from one drive to another without zipping first, you invite privileges issues. DP, Word, Adobe, certain application, audio and many other file types are affected.

Migration Assistant (from another drive or Time Machine) automatically grants these privileges. Cloning does not. Unzipping does, as will attaching to email (attachments are automatically zipped and unzipped).

For many users, there was an unzip bug in OS 12.1–12.4. Files looked ok but they didn't work. Eventide Support turned me onto a bit of freeware, keka.app. Unzipping files in that did the trick. Eventide, PSP license files, FinalDraft, Masterwriter and many other file types were affected. Apple acknowledged the bug and I've not had this problem in 10.12.5.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
sdemott
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by sdemott »

mikehalloran wrote: Those are called Privileges. Minor point, maybe but if you call them what Apple does, it's easier for others to know what you are talking about.
Right - they're technically ACLs, which Finder only gives you very little insight & control over. In fact it represents them as standard UNIX "permissions", even though they haven't been that for years. In terminal you can get far more control...but you also risk doing some serious damage.
The latest version of Onyx has removed the Repair Permissions script. Unfortunate, because this issue screams of permissions issue...so now it has to be done the hard way.

It cannot be a permissions issue in Sierra. They don't exist to be repaired.
They do exist, but there are dangers in messing with them, so Apple has removed the command completely from the OS (even gone in Terminal). macOS is UNIX based (BSD), every file has permissions so the OS knows which users have what kind of access. This has to be the case for any multi-user system. Otherwise everyone is simply a "root" user with unlimited privileges.

If you issue an 'ls -e -l' in terminal you will see all the permissions associated with each file.

Hope that clarifies.
-Steve
Not all who wander are lost.
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mikehalloran »

All that Repair Permissions did on OS X through 10.10 was compare the .bom files in Library/Receipts against installed applications. In 10.11, these files were removed from Library/Receipts. In 10.12, with nothing to compare, the functionality was removed. This is very easy to look up and I suggest that you do so.

Interestingly, DP was one of those applications that could cause grief if this was not done. In El Cap, hundreds of print files were repaired but almost nothing else and I never heard if it fixing anything for anyone.

It never fixed ACL messages although there were Terminal commands that could and the Combo updater did as well. The exception was when someone totally screwed their system by granting the wrong privileges on their boot drive. A complete Time Machine restore works, too.

I played enough with UNIX in three of my day gigs over the years. I love Onyx as I charge $60 an hour if one of my customers uses it—other than that, I have no use for it and prefer Terminal Commands for anything useful it can do.

In any case, this is my last response on this subject.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15134
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mikehalloran »

Back to DSP-Quattro. I assume that you have emailed Stephano. Any response?

It works fine on my system. I never use it anymore as I prefer TwistedWave but that's just a workflow preference, not a deficiency in DSP-Q.

If he ever releases a 64bit version, I'd upgrade just to see how I'd like it.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
sdemott
Posts: 691
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by sdemott »

mikehalloran wrote: Interestingly, DP was one of those applications that could cause grief if this was not done. In El Cap, hundreds of print files were repaired but almost nothing else and I never heard if it fixing anything for anyone.
Sibelius 6 required constant permissions repair or it would stop printing for many users & there was a short lived bug in PhotoScore that would cause the app to hang on launch because it removed all write privileges to one of the /Library/ folders (I can't remember which) when installed or updated.

And yes, since Tiger when Apple switched to ACLs there was little need for repairing permissions outside of apps that reset permissions improperly (which they would then do again anyway, requiring a constant cycle of Disk Utility > Repair Permissions) or users causing issues.

I'm just chiming in with my experience as a former (10 years) Apple Certified Tech (support, desktop & portable repair & server admin). You seem to think I'm challenging you. I'm not. Just trying to help get to the bottom of a frustrating issue, and thought my experience would be welcome. I'm sorry you feel threatened. I will stop visiting this thread.
-Steve
Not all who wander are lost.
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mhschmieder »

Thanks for all the info -- a lot to work with here, and since I'm quite comfortable with Unix, it's good to see the problem shift to my comfort zone and away from macOS specific stuff.

My replacement video card arrived today though, so I'll probably first focus on seeing whether that fixes my old computer. Then maybe I can launch DSP-Quattro there and see if it shows me anything useful that didn't make the cut, but as I used Migration Assistant in conjunction with Time Machine, hopefully I did things the best way for at least application-level stuff.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: DSP-Quattro won't launch after cloning to a new computer

Post by mhschmieder »

It's getting weirder. I did all the directory-level and file-level settings for read/write/etc., and copied DSP-Quattro preferences and Peak preferences from October 2016 off my old TM backup, as well as the ACA P7 Preferences file (no extension) which at the time was at the top-most Preferences directory vs. contained in a special com.bias.peak folder within the Preferences directory.

No change at all in DSP-Quattro's behaviour, but it may have stopped working for me before what is now my oldest TM (or standalone) backup of my old system drive.

Peak is a more interesting case. When I launch and close/crash Peak by doing anything in its Audio Menu, it moves the previous ACA P7 Preferences file and creates a new one in a newly-recreated com.bias.peak folder, that contains only a zero and nothing else.

The ACA P6 Preferences file -- still at the top-level -- is from 2011, right before those of us on the beta test team received the final P7 Pro build that stopped identifying it internally as P6. That one contains "0Fireface 800 (58E)Fireface 800 (58E)", which was the RME interface I had at the time.

I rebooted after all of this, with my normal Master drive in the dock, so no longer have the old TM drive handy as I write this. I thought I first made a copy of ACA P7 Preferences to my Desktop, but I didn't, so will have to reboot again to look at it to see what it said. It should identify the Fireface UFX.

This gets back to my original suspicion, that the problems are the same but reported and manifested differently, for both DSP-Quattro and BIAS Peak Pro 7, and that there is some corruption of Audio MIDI Setup on my Mac -- something that began happening frequently (relatively speaking, for something that is core to the OS) a year or two ago, and which several of us wrote about and had fixes for (in the off-topic forum?).

Thus it may make sense to go back to TM for the Audio MIDI Settings setup file, which is in a weird place but not too hard to find (some sort of "caches" directory).

I suspect something at the OS level isn't seeing the RME interface as a valid address -- possibly because it was broken when first received and was sent back for a new mother board (free of charge, including free shipping -- RME are great) but that gave it a new ID at that time. In 2013?

Probably the best thing at this point is to make two copies of the earlier ACA P7 Preferences file, and also recover an earlier copy of Audio MIDI Setup's cache.

I should point out that my new computer wasn't particularly happy with the RME Fireface UFX across-the-board for audio or MIDI when I first set it up. That sorted out rather quickly, but I forget how.

Again, I must commend MOTU for making Digital Performer so immune to these myriad problems that periodically afflict every other DAW and Mastering App that I own!
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
Post Reply