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SSD incompatibility with El Cap

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SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby Timeline » Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:19 am

SSD incompatibility began with his OS and now older machines like my 09 4.1 and 5.1 machines with their chipset have stopped us from just buying any SSD. Now, we have to expressly search out compatible SSDs for use with OSX boot. That said for data read write they work fine but why would anyone bother to spend 600 bucks and not have OS X boot capability? I think Mike Halorin posted somthin along this line in July but the answers were removed for some reason.
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby mikehalloran » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:02 am

Huh? There is no Apple chip set that is incompatible. Neither is there an Intel chip set. You can use an SSD in any Mac with an SATA bus including the G5 PPC. Likewise, there are PCIe SSDs.

Ok, let's see if I understand what you are really asking.

Before OS 10.10.4, Apple disabled TRIM from working on 3rd party (not supplied by Apple) SSDs. There are complicated Terminal Command sets that enable TRIM but they changed over time. Cindori.org has a nice shareware app that will enable it before 10.10.4 (still works but is redundant).

TRIM has been part of the OS since 10.6.8. It is enabled by default on any Mac with an original equipment SSD. Since OS 10.10.4, you enable it in Terminal with the following command:

sudo trim enable

There are only two reasons not to enable TRIM. (1) you are running UNIX instead of the Mac OS and are performing certain functions.
https://blog.algolia.com/when-solid-sta ... hat-solid/

(2) Certain enterprise servers using the Samsung 850 PRO. TRIM requires downtime to work and if the drive never has any, it's ineffective. With the 850 PRO, it's worse than that. The 850 EVO does not have this issue. So, if you are running a large enterprise back end for a major credit card company, for example, you already know these things.

My sticky about this is still there but it attracted way too much misinformation and I don't even read it anymore.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59419
July 2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad, OWC eSATA mod, 32G RAM, OS 10.12.4
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby HCMarkus » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:10 am

What Mike said. The entire field of SATA SSDs is compatible with OSX (or MacOS Sierra when it hits.) Buy one, install it, enable trim as MIke describes, and enjoy your "new" computer.
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby mikehalloran » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:14 am

There are certain older SSDs that should not be used in anything. Current offerings from Crucial, SanDisk, Intel, Kingston and others I'm forgetting are all fine—make sure that they're current offerings and not discontinued models from 4 years ago that someone's trying to dump. Even though the problems with the Samsung 840 have been resolved by the many firmware updates, I would not buy one—not current manufacture.

The Samsung 850 EVO series is very popular and has a great track record with a 5 year warranty. A 2T is now under $600. There are M2 and PCIe versions also. The 850 PRO has a 10 year warranty and corresponding price increase. It specs a little faster but does not translate to better real world performance—oh yea, the PRO is not recommended for a server tat must be working 24/7.

Apple has been using Samsung SSDs for years, now.
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby Phil O » Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:41 am

BTW, I installed an EVO in my MacPro 3,1 with one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005PZDVF6/re ... 00_TE_item

It has worked flawlessly.

Phil
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby mikehalloran » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:03 am

Phil O wrote:BTW, I installed an EVO in my MacPro 3,1 with one of these:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005PZDVF6/re ... 00_TE_item

It has worked flawlessly.

Phil
That's the same adapter I use with iMacs.

BTW, Since I normally buy 1T and 2T drives nowadays, I've not paid attention to the new, lower priced 750 EVO, limited to 500G. Here is the Tom's review. Worth considering if low cost is important and lower capacity is acceptable.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sam ... 601-2.html
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby Phil O » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:16 am

mikehalloran wrote:That's the same adapter I use with iMacs.
It's quite possible that you pointed me in that direction. :wink:

I'm thinking of picking up one of these for a boot drive on my old MacPro 1,1:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

or perhaps

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147373
DP 9.02, Mac Pro 2.66 quad[1,1] (6 Gig RAM), Mac Pro 2.8 octo[3,1], (12 Gig RAM), OS 10.6.8/10.11.6, two MOTU 828s, Apogee Rosetta 800, UAD-1e, UAD-2, a truckload of outboard gear and plug-ins, and a partridge in a pear tree.
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby mikehalloran » Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:48 am

Phil O wrote:I'm thinking of picking up one of these for a boot drive on my old MacPro 1,1:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... gnorebbr=1

or perhaps

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... 6820147373
I don't see you going wrong either way.

Unless trying to make it run Yosemite or El Cap, get Trim Enabler from Cindori.org.
https://www.cindori.org/software/trimenabler/

Here's a way that many have used to make a 1,1 run a later OS than 10.7.5:
http://lowendmac.com/2014/modernizing-t ... 11-and-21/
July 2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad, OWC eSATA mod, 32G RAM, OS 10.12.4
828mkII FW; MOTU MTP/AV USB with Firmware 2.0.1; DP 9.13, 9.02, 8.07 64bit, DP 7.24; IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan Antares, 32Lives, JBridge, MachFive 3.2.1
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby stratology » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:03 am

Repeating bad advice over and over again does not change the fact that it's bad advice.

Apple warns that there's a very real risk of data loss when enabling Trim on 3rd party SSD's.
Ignore Apple's warning at your own peril.
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby Timeline » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:19 am

mikehalloran wrote:Huh? There is no Apple chip set that is incompatible. Neither is there an Intel chip set. You can use an SSD in any Mac with an SATA bus including the G5 PPC. Likewise, there are PCIe SSDs.

Ok, let's see if I understand what you are really asking.

Before OS 10.10.4, Apple disabled TRIM from working on 3rd party (not supplied by Apple) SSDs. There are complicated Terminal Command sets that enable TRIM but they changed over time. Cindori.org has a nice shareware app that will enable it before 10.10.4 (still works but is redundant).

TRIM has been part of the OS since 10.6.8. It is enabled by default on any Mac with an original equipment SSD. Since OS 10.10.4, you enable it in Terminal with the following command:

sudo trim enable

There are only two reasons not to enable TRIM. (1) you are running UNIX instead of the Mac OS and are performing certain functions.
https://blog.algolia.com/when-solid-sta ... hat-solid/

(2) Certain enterprise servers using the Samsung 850 PRO. TRIM requires downtime to work and if the drive never has any, it's ineffective. With the 850 PRO, it's worse than that. The 850 EVO does not have this issue. So, if you are running a large enterprise back end for a major credit card company, for example, you already know these things.

My sticky about this is still there but it attracted way too much misinformation and I don't even read it anymore.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=59419


Mike, I'm only saying on many of these drives you cannot use them as a boot drive. This is my experience on two drives I purchased recently. Yes all will run fine as data read write drives.

So, in fact, chipset matters as explained by several techs one from OCZ and one from OWC. This was direct info I'm sharing. Regards, GB
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby Phil O » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:39 am

I'm typing this on my MacPro 3,1 with a Samsung EVO 840 that I installed as my boot drive a couple of years ago. It's worked flawlessly. As Mike said, I wouldn't go with this model today, but I think if you go with the SSDs he's mentioned you'll be fine.

Phil
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby mikehalloran » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:47 pm

stratology wrote:Repeating bad advice over and over again does not change the fact that it's bad advice.

Apple warns that there's a very real risk of data loss when enabling Trim on 3rd party SSD's.
Ignore Apple's warning at your own peril.
old issues long resolved. If this were not true, there would be thousands of complaints since Apple made it easy to enable TRIM.... Oh wait, there are none.

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July 2010 iMac 2.93G i7 Quad, OWC eSATA mod, 32G RAM, OS 10.12.4
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby stratology » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:58 pm

mikehalloran wrote:old issues long resolved.


Link?
Has Apple removed the warning?

Issues may not be easily recognised - didn't you report elsewhere that your Disk Utility doesn't work correctly anymore? To name just one example...
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby Timeline » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:07 pm

I bought an SSD for my 2007 laptop about three years ago. Its worked as a boot drive ever since. This stuff is recent I think. Anyway, why do manufactures like OWC list compatible computers if it was resolved???

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/32 ... 0&tstart=0
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Re: SSD incompatibility with El Cap

Postby HCMarkus » Sun Sep 11, 2016 2:37 pm

stratology wrote:
mikehalloran wrote:old issues long resolved.


Link?
Has Apple removed the warning?

Issues may not be easily recognised - didn't you report elsewhere that your Disk Utility doesn't work correctly anymore? To name just one example...

Do we really need to go down this rabbit hole again? Trim works. It is recommended by everyone I have read and whom I know, with one exception. Guess who that exception is...

Mike, I'm only saying on many of these drives you cannot use them as a boot drive. This is my experience on two drives I purchased recently. Yes all will run fine as data read write drives.


I'd be curious to see the info provided by OZC. To my knowledge, every SATA SSD will work as an OS X boot drive. Certain SATA PCIe cards may not provide bootable ports, however.
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