2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

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zoeticOne
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2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by zoeticOne »

Hey Guys,

My apologies up front if this has already been addressed in some fashion but it's time for an upgrade from my 3.33 GHz C2D w/16 GB memory.

My plan was to buy a new 21.5" non-Retina mac, get stock memory, upgrade to more later (as you can see, I hadn't been keeping up on current events) and then buy a MOTU AVB switch to link them. But wondering if I would be better off buying an older Pro Mac (thanks OWC) where I can upgrade to much higher anount of memory (for VIs) as well as some of the other peripherals.

In your opinion, what would be at least comparable in a 2009/2010 Pro Mac VS buying a brand new 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina iMac (am I even asking the right question)? I'm really can't afford to spend more than $1500.
Mac Pro 3.33 Six Core & MacMini 3.2 GHz i7 RAM 64 GB w/10.10.5 & 13.6.1 | MOTU DP9.5 & 11.3 | Apogee Duet & Ensemble Firewire | UAD Apollo Twin MKII | KRK V8 (original)| MOTU MIDI ExpressXT | MOTU micro lite | Roland XV3080 | Korg TR-Rack(Trinity) | EMU EIV XT Ultra | Clavia Nord Lead 2X | Access Virus TI Snow | Korg M3 | Fostex D-5 | Plugins: Boz Digital Labs, FabFilter, Korg, KV331Audio, MOTU, Metric Halo, NI, Roland Cloud, Sonarworks, UAD, Voxengo, Waves, iZotope, u-he...
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mikehalloran
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by mikehalloran »

The issue isn't what's comparable. That doesn't really matter until you have a clear dea what you want to do with it.

Assuming DP, what else do we need to know? Are you planning to record primarily audio, MIDI, both? Do you use a lot of VIs, few, none?

What else do you use a Mac for?

Get the Mac for the job.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
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HCMarkus
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by HCMarkus »

I have had great results for DP with a modded 2009 Mac Pro hex. I did it over three years ago; although it cost me a lot more then than it would today, it was a super buy. Now, high-end performance is readily available to this willing to do some very simple Mac Pro surgery. If you are interested in getting tremendous bang-for-the-buck, review the following thread, noting prices have dropped.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=58848

X5680s are now running about $130, and 4,1 single-cpu Mac Pros are running $500-600. The single-CPU upgrade is stupid simple. Upgrading the dual 4,1 is more of an art, unless you de-lid your CPUs (deluding services a running about $150 per pair of CPUs. Take a look at Macofalltrades.com or Ebay. Or you can buy one from OWC and pay a little more. Many folks are selling already upgraded Mac Pros, too.
zoeticOne
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by zoeticOne »

mikehalloran wrote:The issue isn't what's comparable. That doesn't really matter until you have a clear dea what you want to do with it.

Assuming DP, what else do we need to know? Are you planning to record primarily audio, MIDI, both? Do you use a lot of VIs, few, none?

What else do you use a Mac for?

Get the Mac for the job.
Yes, most definitely using DP (will upgrade to 9) but these new iMacs configs and their latest OS have me a bit frustrated and confused.

I'm primarily writing electronic based music but I also incorporate natural instruments which can put my overall audio track count at 32+ at times. I typically track in MIDI during the writing stage and then commit to audio tracks later. I would like to primarily run more virtual synths and processors realtime on individual tracks.

My thought was to buy an AVB switch to be able to utilize my current C2D as additional power on larger projects (as well as internet, business, some gaming) in conjunction with a dedicated new iMac or lets say a 2009/2010 quad or 6 core Pro mac as the Bread & Butter box.

My dilemma is I have no idea what would be considered sufficient and what would be considered overkill (if there is such a thing). My fear is to buy a new iMac and not be able to run many VIs due to ram and or power. I know I can stream my samplers(MachFive3 & NI Kontact)from SSD but will 16 Gigs of ram really be enough in a semi-pro environment?
Mac Pro 3.33 Six Core & MacMini 3.2 GHz i7 RAM 64 GB w/10.10.5 & 13.6.1 | MOTU DP9.5 & 11.3 | Apogee Duet & Ensemble Firewire | UAD Apollo Twin MKII | KRK V8 (original)| MOTU MIDI ExpressXT | MOTU micro lite | Roland XV3080 | Korg TR-Rack(Trinity) | EMU EIV XT Ultra | Clavia Nord Lead 2X | Access Virus TI Snow | Korg M3 | Fostex D-5 | Plugins: Boz Digital Labs, FabFilter, Korg, KV331Audio, MOTU, Metric Halo, NI, Roland Cloud, Sonarworks, UAD, Voxengo, Waves, iZotope, u-he...
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HCMarkus
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by HCMarkus »

16 gigs will probably be fine… I've got 24 in my Mac Pro, but there always seems to be a lot of RAM available even with pretty heavy VI use.
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mikehalloran
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by mikehalloran »

and what would be considered overkill (if there is such a thing).
No such thing a overkill :headbang:

I don't have your needs but your resource requirements aren't any more demanding. Look at my signature for my rig.

iMac new
A 21.5" iMac is pretty small unless you add a second monitor. A 24" backlit HDMI monitor will cost $100-200; a 27" will cost $175-300. Add $7 for the MDP to HDMI adapter (weird but Apple doesn't sell one).

You really will want an SSD, the biggest Apple has. Faster and less heat, even if the capacity is 1/3 that of a Fusion drive. Get the i7, on certain tasks, it runs circles around an i5 – the extra $200 is absolutely worth it but, unfortunately, is not available on the current non-retina iMac.

iMac used
For my taste, the best bang for the buck is a 2011 27" iMac i7. A 1 or 2T SSD is very easy to install if you know the shortcuts – much easier than installing in a 2009/2010. 2011 was the first year for Thunderbolt and SATA III. RAM is cheap and easy to install. 2011 was the first year for Thunderbolt if you need to add fast storage.

Mac Pro.
Load it up with drives. Lots of threads on hot rodding it with a bigger, faster CPU (or pair). RAM is inexpensive.

Get an SSD for your boot drive at least. Excellent 1T solid state drives have broken the $300 price; 2T SSDs are under $700 (Samsung 850 EVO). Get a 4,6 or 8T mechanical drive for Time Machine. You still have two more bays open.

Monitors are inexpensive. The DVI to HDMI adapters are a few $ more but the $30 Apple adapters are not necessary.


I don't think a high performance Mac for DP is doable for $1,500. Around $2K, perhaps...
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
zoeticOne
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by zoeticOne »

HCMarkus wrote:I have had great results for DP with a modded 2009 Mac Pro hex. I did it over three years ago; although it cost me a lot more then than it would today, it was a super buy. Now, high-end performance is readily available to this willing to do some very simple Mac Pro surgery. If you are interested in getting tremendous bang-for-the-buck, review the following thread, noting prices have dropped.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=58848

X5680s are now running about $130, and 4,1 single-cpu Mac Pros are running $500-600. The single-CPU upgrade is stupid simple. Upgrading the dual 4,1 is more of an art, unless you de-lid your CPUs (deluding services a running about $150 per pair of CPUs. Take a look at Macofalltrades.com or Ebay. Or you can buy one from OWC and pay a little more. Many folks are selling already upgraded Mac Pros, too.
Thanks HCMarkus! You and Mike have posted great info on things to be considered.

I'm leaning towards a used Pro Mac. I just can't in good conscience buy a new iMac and can't afford the Trash Can from Apple. I may try the whole cpu upgrade thing myself but it appears that I'm coming very very late to this party as they're already upgrading and selling them all around for a premium.

Thanks again guys. :D
Mac Pro 3.33 Six Core & MacMini 3.2 GHz i7 RAM 64 GB w/10.10.5 & 13.6.1 | MOTU DP9.5 & 11.3 | Apogee Duet & Ensemble Firewire | UAD Apollo Twin MKII | KRK V8 (original)| MOTU MIDI ExpressXT | MOTU micro lite | Roland XV3080 | Korg TR-Rack(Trinity) | EMU EIV XT Ultra | Clavia Nord Lead 2X | Access Virus TI Snow | Korg M3 | Fostex D-5 | Plugins: Boz Digital Labs, FabFilter, Korg, KV331Audio, MOTU, Metric Halo, NI, Roland Cloud, Sonarworks, UAD, Voxengo, Waves, iZotope, u-he...
rickorick
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by rickorick »

Check out the colleges around you they might have a surplus store that sells off computers and other stuff. I just picked up a 2012 6 core 3.33 Mac Pro for… wait for it $500. It came with 27"
Apple monitor but unfortunately it died the next day but the computer is still working. Look around they are out there.
Used 2012 Mac Pro 3.33 6 Core 16g ram 10.8.5 DP 7.24
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mikehalloran
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by mikehalloran »

rickorick wrote:Check out the colleges around you they might have a surplus store that sells off computers and other stuff. I just picked up a 2012 6 core 3.33 Mac Pro for… wait for it $500. It came with 27"
Apple monitor but unfortunately it died the next day but the computer is still working. Look around they are out there.
Uh... Do they have more????

Those new backlit HDMI monitors are so energy efficient that they are cool to the touch
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
rickorick
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Re: 2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by rickorick »

It was a mini display, I mean the type of connector, LED. I took it to my local shop and they said the screen was burned out. It must of come with the computer which means it was probably only 3 years old, I have the older 20" cinemas so I got an adapter for one and the other is DVI so I still have 2 monitors. I check this place out every day one never knows what will show up. I got a Stiffel brass lamp for $5, and it's only 5 minutes from my house. Last week they had an older Mac Pro maybe a 2006 but it had 4 1tb drives with a monitor for $300, the drives and the monitor were worth more than the computer, it was a 23" older cinema.
Used 2012 Mac Pro 3.33 6 Core 16g ram 10.8.5 DP 7.24
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kgdrum
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2009/2010 Mac Pro Xeon VS. 2015 21.5" 2.8GHz non-Retina

Post by kgdrum »

rickorick wrote:Check out the colleges around you they might have a surplus store that sells off computers and other stuff. I just picked up a 2012 6 core 3.33 Mac Pro for… wait for it $500. It came with 27"
Apple monitor but unfortunately it died the next day but the computer is still working. Look around they are out there.
What area do you live?
I want to find that college surplus store! ;-)
2012 Mac Pro 3.46GHz 12 core 96 gig,Mojave, DP11.01,Logic 10.51, RME UCX,Great River ME-1NV,a few microphones,UAD2, Komplete 12U,U-he,Omni & way too many VI's,Synths & FX galore!, Mimic Pro w/ SD3,Focal Twin 6 monitors, Shunyata...........
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