Mac Pro locking up

[cbergm7210]

Hey guys...

My trusty late 2009 Mac Pro all of a sudden has started to lock up. The whole machine, not just one program. Beach ball appears, and game over. Have to hold down the power button for a hard shutdown.

I've tried unplugging all the hardware with no success. The only other clue I have is that when I start in safe mode it seems to be fine. I also installed SMC fan control to get the CPU temp down from 40 degrees Celsius to about 35. (Suggestion from someone else...)

Where should I go from here? Are there crash logs that would give clues where this is coming from?

Another clue is that it happens less when I am using the machine as opposed to it sitting idle. If I walk away for a while you can bet it'll be hung when I come back.

Thanks as always for brains bigger than mine regarding this stuff.

[HCMarkus]

Could be bad RAM. Could be bad OWC PCIe SSD… I saw you posted the question to James. Do you have a clone startup drive to boot from? Or boot from recovery drive.

Confirming whether the issue is software or hardware is a good place to start. The easiest way to do that may be to rule out software by using a different boot drive and basic OS installation. Good luck!

[billf]

It's difficult to say, but the areas I would look at are:

1. Failing hard drive. Do some diagnostics on it, make sure it is backed up as well. Try booting from a different drive and see if the behavior persists.

2. If you are getting temp spikes you may have a problem with the fans. Make sure everything is clean and all fans are in working order.

3. Power supply issues, ranging from issues with the hardware to issues with your electric service. Is the Mac hooked up to a UPS?

4. OS changes. Did you install or remove any software recently?

RAM and cards will usually give a kernel panic, but there could be something there as well. Take everything out, clean it, and reseat.

[cbergm7210]

Could be bad RAM. Could be bad OWC PCIe SSD… I saw you posted the question to James. Do you have a clone startup drive to boot from? Or boot from recovery drive.

Confirming whether the issue is software or hardware is a good place to start. The easiest way to do that may be to rule out software by using a different boot drive and basic OS installation. Good luck!

Thanks, HC. I failed to mention I did start up from the installation DVD and ran the Apple hardware test. That should cover obvious memory and hardware problems, yes?

Good idea about booting from another drive. Probably my next step.I have double clones of everything ala 15 TB's of backups.

Any thoughts on bad SDD's? From a cursory search I saw many SSD drives just crap out overnight as opposed to causing issues on their way to failure. This drive is 8 months old, by the way.

[cbergm7210]

It's difficult to say, but the areas I would look at are:

1. Failing hard drive. Do some diagnostics on it, make sure it is backed up as well. Try booting from a different drive and see if the behavior persists.

2. If you are getting temp spikes you may have a problem with the fans. Make sure everything is clean and all fans are in working order.

3. Power supply issues, ranging from issues with the hardware to issues with your electric service. Is the Mac hooked up to a UPS?

4. OS changes. Did you install or remove any software recently?

RAM and cards will usually give a kernel panic, but there could be something there as well. Take everything out, clean it, and reseat.

Thanks, Bill. Good stuff.

For all:

I had a "local Mac guru" around here tell me not to blow out the computer and instead vacuum it so as not to blow dust into places it should not be in. I think I'll do that. I'll also check the fans. The temp seems to hover around 32 to 37 C, but if it spiked I probably would not catch it. I'll keep a watch out.

He also said the heat sinks were notoriously bad in these late 2009 machines, but would that not be reflected in the temp window from the SMC fan window if they were the culprit?

UPS yes. Offline, but it's old. I thought of that, actually, wondering if the thing is just plain wearing out. It is almost 20 years old right now. I'll add that to the list to swap out.

No changes to OS or any other software. I put food on the table 8 hours daily with this machine on DP. No kernal panics, the thing just ups and starts with the beach ball. The odd thing is, it will let me tab between programs, but that's it. No response to anything including option command esc to shut down things. I have to hard reboot.

Rebooting as much as 10 times per day.

[HCMarkus]

On the heat sinks… old thermal paste would be the issue, most likely, but temps should show up as elevated if this is the problem.

I have read many reports of the OWC PCIe SSDs failing suddenly and prematurely including, as I recall, one owned by our own James Steele. On the other hand, there is this:

http://techreport.com/discussion/27436/ ... ytes#metal

The first drives to fail in this test expired at over 700TB of writes. (I include this information only to avoid discouraging folks from going the SSD route.)

I hope you find a quick solution to your issues Chris.

[cbergm7210]

On the heat sinks… old thermal paste would be the issue, most likely, but temps should show up as elevated if this is the problem.

I have read many reports of the OWC PCIe SSDs failing suddenly and prematurely including, as I recall, one owned by our own James Steele. On the other hand, there is this:

http://techreport.com/discussion/27436/ ... ytes#metal

The first drives to fail in this test expired at over 700TB of writes. (I include this information only to avoid discouraging folks from going the SSD route.)

I hope you find a quick solution to your issues Chris.

Thanks bud. I just got done reading the whole JS thread regarding his SSD. I took the dive into SSD land partly because of your recommendation. Never looked back. I got the big one and partitioned it into 3 blocks: Boot, streaming heavy VI's, and Windows. It's fantastic. (Esp when you have to reboot 10 times a day because of a problem)

[billf]

I had a "local Mac guru" around here tell me not to blow out the computer and instead vacuum it so as not to blow dust into places it should not be in. I think I'll do that. I'll also check the fans. The temp seems to hover around 32 to 37 C, but if it spiked I probably would not catch it. I'll keep a watch out.

Be careful with a vacuum inside of the computer. You want a specialized vacuum for it, NOT the one you use to clean your floors.

http://www.howtogeek.com/57870/ask-how- ... -keyboard/?

t’s bad to clean the inside of your computer with a vacuum cleaner because vacuuming creates a large static build up that could (and most likely will) discharge into the sensitive electronics inside your computer case. There are specialized vacuum cleaners designed for cleaning out computers and electronic equipment but given the limited amount of use a single user would get from such a purchase it’s not a very wise one—they start at $300+ and can easily break the $1000 price barrier.

What we’d recommend doing is taking your computer case into a well ventilated area (outside on a sunny day or in your garage is a great place), grounding the case to protect against static discharge (although the risk here is very very low) and using compressed air to clean the dust off. If you’re using an air compressor (as opposed to just a can of compressed air from the computer store) make sure to start a good 24″ or so away from the case and work your way in closer. You want to use just enough air pressure to blast the dust off the surfaces and out of the case without overdoing it and pushing dust into even more difficult to remove places.

[cbergm7210]

I had a "local Mac guru" around here tell me not to blow out the computer and instead vacuum it so as not to blow dust into places it should not be in. I think I'll do that. I'll also check the fans. The temp seems to hover around 32 to 37 C, but if it spiked I probably would not catch it. I'll keep a watch out.

Be careful with a vacuum inside of the computer. You want a specialized vacuum for it, NOT the one you use to clean your floors.

http://www.howtogeek.com/57870/ask-how- ... -keyboard/?

t’s bad to clean the inside of your computer with a vacuum cleaner because vacuuming creates a large static build up that could (and most likely will) discharge into the sensitive electronics inside your computer case. There are specialized vacuum cleaners designed for cleaning out computers and electronic equipment but given the limited amount of use a single user would get from such a purchase it’s not a very wise one—they start at $300+ and can easily break the $1000 price barrier.

What we’d recommend doing is taking your computer case into a well ventilated area (outside on a sunny day or in your garage is a great place), grounding the case to protect against static discharge (although the risk here is very very low) and using compressed air to clean the dust off. If you’re using an air compressor (as opposed to just a can of compressed air from the computer store) make sure to start a good 24″ or so away from the case and work your way in closer. You want to use just enough air pressure to blast the dust off the surfaces and out of the case without overdoing it and pushing dust into even more difficult to remove places.

Very interesting. Thanks for that!

I did buy an $800 Miele and got an extra attachment "kit" that was a small electronics vacuum kit. Probably would not help with the issue in that article. Inquiring minds want to know how the vacuum creates the "large static buildup".

[billf]

UPS yes. Offline, but it's old. I thought of that, actually, wondering if the thing is just plain wearing out. It is almost 20 years old right now. I'll add that to the list to swap out.

Twenty years is old for a UPS battery. The batteries in UPS systems eventually die out, so it can cause power supply issues. You can get the battery replaced in many UPS devices.

[HCMarkus]

UPS yes. Offline, but it's old. I thought of that, actually, wondering if the thing is just plain wearing out. It is almost 20 years old right now. I'll add that to the list to swap out.

Twenty years is old for a UPS battery. The batteries in UPS systems eventually die out, so it can cause power supply issues. You can get the battery replaced in many UPS devices.

I wish my car's battery would last 20 years!

UPS Batteries are generally easy to replace and common sizes, so you don't need to purchase thru the UPS manufacturer.

[billf]

UPS Batteries are generally easy to replace and common sizes, so you don't need to purchase thru the UPS manufacturer.

Yes they are easy to replace, and often look like small car batteries. I take my UPS units over to my local Batteries Plus store, and they change them out and test the units to make sure all is working properly.

[mikehalloran]

Thanks, HC. I failed to mention I did start up from the installation DVD and ran the Apple hardware test. That should cover obvious memory and hardware problems, yes?

No. Only those problems it knows to look for when they are happening.

1. How old is the C2032 keep alive battery? If 3 years or older, change it. In these, a weak battery causes more problems than no battery at all.

2. Run Disk Repair from another drive. What happens? If you see red, keep running it until it is fixed or you see the identical errors three times in a row. If everything is black and green, you're good.

3. The best test for RAM is TechTool–it's what Apple uses. If you bought AppleCare in the past, you have a copy that you can update at no charge.

4. Unfortunately, one of the symptoms of bad RAM is a corrupt clone. Hopefully, yours are good.

5. Clear the heat sinks as you have already been advised.

Mac OS 10.8.4

OS 10.8.2 was a watershed update. Lots of old, benign garbage started crashing the OS when it came out. Usually, however, there are crash reports. If you've had 10.8.2 or later for a long time, this is not usually the problem.

BTW, Apple's Disk Utility and TechTool are the only utilities worth a damn when it comes to chasing down the problem. Even these are best when using to diagnose instead of repair a problem.