Xeon X5680s Now $45... October 2018

Macintosh software/hardware discussion and troubleshooting

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toodamnhip
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by toodamnhip »

OK, I have what may be some important info for some of you?

In researching my start up issue, it appears it has to do with VOLTAGE. When the computer is trying to start, the chips are requiring more voltage than the processor board was designed to provide. The 3.33 Ghz chip I bought requires HIGHER voltage than my motherboard provides.
I have a mid 2010. It originally was 8 core, with 2.61 chips.
Not only did I up my cores to 12, but I also upped the clock speed to 3.33.
I guess 2.61 requires less voltage than 3.33 Ghz.
This made for even more speed increase than just adding cores. Nothing here at the forum indicated I would have a problem with that so I thought-“why not move up the clock speed too”.
Well, the answer to “why not”, is that the added clock speed requires more voltage.
So when Aventis agreed to replace the chips I originally bought, I had them check their tech guy to see if there was a better chip for my year and model. And that is when their tech guy told me my processor board does;t quite have the voltage required for the 3.33 chip. They recommended a 2.61 chip.

Now, everyone here knows I am a gluten for processor power so, I am taking a chance and ordering the SAME 3.33 chip because I don;t want to go back in power.

That 3.33 chip (model X5680 3.33 12MB Cache SLBV5) worked for 3+ months without start up problems. So I am hoping for the same.
But it is clear to me that I am definitely operating at the edges of my 2010 processor boards capabilities. For those of you who want to know, the recommended processor upgrade is a “5650" chip, clocking at 2.61.
The funny thing is, since a third re seating of my 3.33 chip, I have had start up failure only once. Which required ONE re start attempt as compared to the 11 it took before.

So this is apparently the price one has to pay to operate at the edges of one’s cpu’s capabilities.

Hope this proves informative to some of you, especially new comers that are seeing two clock speed choices when upgrading. If you want the hassle free route, maybe you should try a 2.61 chip. Unless of course, your old computer has a 3.33 8 core, at which point, it is my guess, you do have sufficient voltage.
By the way, if any of you have upgraded clock speed as well as cores, like I did, I would love to hear your experience, good or bad.
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by mikehalloran »

Which begs the obvious question: Is there an inexpensive power supply or voltage regulator upgrade that will do it?

I haven't dealt with this since G3/4/5 were what I worked on.

Although this deals with the issue in terms of the GPU, it may have some useful info. Are you running power hungry graphics cards?
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upg ... 1.1759804/

This guy fitted an external power supply to his Mac Pro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKNTG6vAWw
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by toodamnhip »

mikehalloran wrote:Which begs the obvious question: Is there an inexpensive power supply or voltage regulator upgrade that will do it?

I haven't dealt with this since G3/4/5 were what I worked on.

Although this deals with the issue in terms of the GPU, it may have some useful info. Are you running power hungry graphics cards?
http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/upg ... 1.1759804/

This guy fitted an external power supply to his Mac Pro
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgKNTG6vAWw
I don’t think I have too hungry a graphics card but I am not an authority on such.., I have the graphics card that came with the machine- ATI Radeon HD5770 1024 MB.
I’ll look over your links.
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by kgdrum »

toodamnhip wrote:OK, I have what may be some important info for some of you?

In researching my start up issue, it appears it has to do with VOLTAGE. When the computer is trying to start, the chips are requiring more voltage than the processor board was designed to provide. The 3.33 Ghz chip I bought requires HIGHER voltage than my motherboard provides.
I have a mid 2010. It originally was 8 core, with 2.61 chips.
Not only did I up my cores to 12, but I also upped the clock speed to 3.33.
I guess 2.61 requires less voltage than 3.33 Ghz.
This made for even more speed increase than just adding cores. Nothing here at the forum indicated I would have a problem with that so I thought-“why not move up the clock speed too”.
Well, the answer to “why not”, is that the added clock speed requires more voltage.
So when Aventis agreed to replace the chips I originally bought, I had them check their tech guy to see if there was a better chip for my year and model. And that is when their tech guy told me my processor board does;t quite have the voltage required for the 3.33 chip. They recommended a 2.61 chip.


Hope this proves informative to some of you, especially new comers that are seeing two clock speed choices when upgrading. If you want the hassle free route, maybe you should try a 2.61 chip. Unless of course, your old computer has a 3.33 8 core, at which point, it is my guess, you do have sufficient voltage.
By the way, if any of you have upgraded clock speed as well as cores, like I did, I would love to hear your experience, good or bad.

I haven't had a problem I upgraded a 2012 MP which was essentially just going from a 4 core to a 6 core,the 4 core was 3.2 and the 6 core is a 3.33.
Also the model I have was manufactured as a Mac Pro Server,I don't know if there are any power supply or logic board tweaks for server models but so far the MP I'm using has sufficient voltage,I hope you get this solved.
Last edited by kgdrum on Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by Gravity Jim »

I think your trouble-shooting has led you to a bad conclusion... your tech guy was wrong, as they so often are. That machine was available in a 12-core 3.33ghz configuration, and I'm sure all configurations had the same power supply. Also, I made exactly the same upgrade - mid 2010 2.2ghz 8-core to a 3.33 12-core, and the machine booted on the first try and every day since. It doesn't exhibit any power supply symptoms.
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by kgdrum »

i wonder if it might actually be a logic board issue?
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by HCMarkus »

OK TDH, it COULD be a power issue if your power supply is sagging, but your Mac Pro has a 900+ watt power supply that, when functioning properly, can drive multiple 250 watt GPUs without missing a beat. Unless it's busted, no way your power supply can't handle the 260 max total watts your two hex 3.33 gHz CPUs demand.

That stated, the max CPU Apple offered in the dual CPU 2012's was two 95 watt 3.06 gHz hex processors. So, yeah, the dual 3.33 over stokes the boiler, but the boiler can take the pressure. Again, I have seen no other accounts of CPU overloading a Mac Pro power supply, and I have researched the mod extensively over the past three years.

Hope you get to the bottom of this TDH. You've experienced the power, and we'd all like you to be able to enjoy it without complications.
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by toodamnhip »

HCMarkus wrote:OK TDH, it COULD be a power issue if your power supply is sagging, but your Mac Pro has a 900+ watt power supply that, when functioning properly, can drive multiple 250 watt GPUs without missing a beat. Unless it's busted, no way your power supply can't handle the 260 max total watts your two hex 3.33 gHz CPUs demand.

That stated, the max CPU Apple offered in the dual CPU 2012's was two 95 watt 3.06 gHz hex processors. So, yeah, the dual 3.33 over stokes the boiler, but the boiler can take the pressure. Again, I have seen no other accounts of CPU overloading a Mac Pro power supply, and I have researched the mod extensively over the past three years.

Hope you get to the bottom of this TDH. You've experienced the power, and we'd all like you to be able to enjoy it without complications.
I am not sure it’s a power supply problem. It’s the processor board and how it is designed. But we’ll see if the new chip improves matters,
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by nk_e »

Two things:

1 - I'd just like to confirm that a 5,1 dual 2.66 can be upgraded to a 3.46ghz set of chips. Can someone comment?
2 - I've also received conflicting advice concerning the upgrade. To wit: Everything from "You'll barely notice a difference" to "The difference will be well worth it." I've looked at the mac bench scores and there seems to be a 10 to 20 percent increase in scores depending on what aspect you look at, but it's hard to translate that into actual use cases. Any thoughts?
2 - I'd like to suggest that this thread become a sticky. It has SO MUCH valuable information that should remain available at all times.

Thank you!

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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by monkey man »

I'd go the 3.33GHz 5680 chips, nk_e.

The 5690 you refer to draws more power for, AFAIK, little more in the way of performance. Also, it seems to me that the '90s were the pinnacle of the line, meaning that their design was as close to the edge as was feasible; the model was to therefore be the last of the series.

I chose the slightly slower 5680 for this reason alone; the lower power usage is just a bonus.

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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by nk_e »

monkey man wrote:I'd go the 3.33GHz 5680 chips, nk_e.

The 5690 you refer to draws more power for, AFAIK, little more in the way of performance. Also, it seems to me that the '90s were the pinnacle of the line, meaning that their design was as close to the edge as was feasible; the model was to therefore be the last of the series.

I chose the slightly slower 5680 for this reason alone; the lower power usage is just a bonus.
Thank you very much for the reply.

I'm not tracking exactly though...You are saying that because it was the pinnacle of the line you are avoiding it? If so, is it because you suspect there may be stability issues?

Thank you.

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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by monkey man »

It's just my philosophy I guess. I'm sure they'd be stable as Hell... until I pushed 'em too hard for too long in my non-air-conditioned room or whatever. I'd like this 'puter to last me as many years as I can get out of it now, so anything I can do to help ensure long-term efficacy of the system is worth more to me than the few-percent grunt gain I might've "enjoyed" (as if I'd have even noticed) from the 3.47? as opposed to the 3.33GHz system. The architecture's pretty much the same, I believe, so we'd be talking 2 or 3% unless I'm mistaken.

Experience has taught me to settle for one step down from the "edge" product; that way, as you suggest, there's generally less likelihood of failure and so on. In this case, where, say, CPUs, hard drives (and even RAM?) are concerned, there's generally also a heat trade-off, which IMHO affects long-term reliability. So it's things like power consumption, heat generation and therefore component failure.

In the case of HDDs, I'd not rush out and buy a 4TB drive the moment the size came to market. I'd wait to see how reliable they turned out to be and allow time for refinement of the new "standard", settling for a 2 or 3 TB size in the interim. It's all about respecting boundaries, I reckon - manufacturers are motivated by what they can "get away with" to make a buck, whereas I, on the other hand, stand to lose my life's work or a song or whatever should I choose to dance the Tango at the outer limits with them.

Sorry for the rave, but whether it's cars, fridges, TVs or Tiddly-Winks, cutting-edge just isn't for me. I don't have the budget to accommodate failures I can safely put down to my own greed.

EDIT:
You're right. I too think it should become a sticky.

You asked about performance gains. I started from a lower base than you, at 2.4GHz 12C, but not that much lower really. I too was "warned" not to expect too much. I haven't pushed the system in DP yet (and probably won't for a while), but my everyday use such as renaming and moving music videos, doing the odd format conversion and mousing Finder and app menus has been a much snappier experience. In fact, I was hugely disappointed by the sluggishness of the 2.4CPUs when I bought the 'puter new; my previous 2008 8C 2.8GHz machine smoked it in this department. Lo and behold 'though, immediately following the CPU swap, things have been better than ever in this regard. For this fact alone, the upgrade has been more than worth it. Things just feel "right" now, whereas it all felt under-powered before.

Oh, and I mentioned this somewhere else: I can now render video-clip format conversions using the ol' 2-pass feature (I think most conversion utilities offer this option) for more accurate results, whereas until this point, it's never been a viable option due to the length of time involved. As I said, it seems to have all "come together" now. Awesome. So... do it man!

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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by nk_e »

Thanks Monkey Man!

:headbang:

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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by toodamnhip »

nk_e wrote:Two things:

1 - I'd just like to confirm that a 5,1 dual 2.66 can be upgraded to a 3.46ghz set of chips. Can someone comment?
2 - I've also received conflicting advice concerning the upgrade. To wit: Everything from "You'll barely notice a difference" to "The difference will be well worth it." I've looked at the mac bench scores and there seems to be a 10 to 20 percent increase in scores depending on what aspect you look at, but it's hard to translate that into actual use cases. Any thoughts?
2 - I'd like to suggest that this thread become a sticky. It has SO MUCH valuable information that should remain available at all times.

Thank you!
From my experience, it is a “possibility” that your jump in Ghz speed “may” cause you an issue. I am still in the middle of my issue, where I found that the Ghz aspect of the upgrade is what “may” get you into VOLTAGE issues. Not “power supply’, VOLTAGE. Meaning the processor board is designed for a certain voltage and something gets “unhappy” when a chip asks for more voltage than specs provide for.
It would really be nice if a Mac repair EXPERT chimed in here.
I could be completely wrong and it could be that it is just a bad chip.

The latest on my situation is that my computer is starting fine after 2 re-installs, re-seating of the 12 core 3.31 chips. It worked 3 months without an issue but there have been quirky problems such as audio waveform re draw and diagnosis issues that may be related to the new chips or not. I know I did a great job in my initial install as I had the exact specs for applying arctic silver WITH diagrams and I did EXACTLY what it said.
But I am being sent 2 new chips just in case and will replace when I get them. If those chips Zing away without startup issues, then I will know voltage was;t an issue. If I again have start up issues, I will know it is because I upped the Ghz too much.

As for processor increase, 8 core 2.61 up to 12 core 3.33 was almost a doubling of performance and well worth it.

My worst moment in all of this was really the trouble shooting. Disconnecting all peripherals and opening the computer, crawling behind the mixing area etc. In my worst moments, the computer always started, it just required 11 attempts. One also gets nervous each time that maybe the comp won;t start at all.

So there is everything I’ve been going through. Make your own decisions and I will keep updating as my situation develops.
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Re: Xeon X5680s Now Under $200

Post by monkey man »

I'm no expert on these things, as you well know, Hipster, but my gut tells me it's not your power supply.

900w seems like a typically-Apple-esque degree of over-engineering, and you'd think it'd be more than enough. 2.4 to 3.33GHz here with 5 drives and all PCI slots drawing current, and even having employed my patented MonkeyLabs NutBuster Method™ of CPU installation, zero issues so far... touch wood.

Could the PS be a dud? Could it have been a factory second, an in-store demo unit or could someone (a previous owner?) have replaced it with a less-over-specified unit? Have you spilled jungle juice all over it? Dammit, Hipster, speak up, man!

... Oh... yeah, I have to finish the post and hit "Submissive" before you can do that. Sorry. A little keen there.

Take care, bro'.

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