Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Macintosh software/hardware discussion and troubleshooting

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FMiguelez
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Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by FMiguelez »

Hello.

My wife's laptop's internal HD, with Snow Leopard, is ridiculously slow. It is encrypted, so I bet it is REALLY fragmented.

I want to nuke it/wipe it off and install Yosemite from scratch.
All her data is in a Time Machine backup, which is also encrypted with a Sparsebundle image from TM.
I have the Yosemite installer in a USB flash memory.


What's the best way to accomplish this?
Can I nuke her disk with Disk Utility and then install Yosemite from another computer via FW target mode?
If so, at what point can I transfer all her stuff such as Mail, contacts and folders/files from the TM backup?

Or, can I install it from a USB stick? The thing is that I want to nuke her current disk and start totally fresh.

Or should I copy the Yosemite installer to her computer and do it from there? Would it nuke the disk, or would it simply update what is already there (including the terrible fragmentation)?

Thank you for your advice.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by bayswater »

I wouldn't assume the problem is fragmentation. OS X looks after some, if not all fragmentation. I think you can use iDefrag in demo mode to at least assess the level of fragmentation. My bet is you will find very little file fragmentation, but a lot of free space fragments.

I know that wasn't your question. You can make a bootable installer as per the instructions here:

http://www.macworld.com/article/2367748 ... drive.html

The article says "If you want to erase the drive on a Mac before installing Yosemite, or start over at any time, you can use a dedicated installer drive to boot that Mac, erase its drive, and then install the OS clean and restore whatever data you need from a backup."
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by FMiguelez »

Thank you for your reply, Bays.

I will read that link you gave me carefully.

I am pretty sure fragmentation is the main problem. I experienced the same a few years ago in my computer, due to the FileVault encryption and constant addition/deletion of big files. Back then, I checked it with iDefrag, and it reported very bad things. Pieces of files all over the place. That´s the reason I purchased it. I defragmented it, and it made ALL the difference in the world.

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... =4&t=47202


But to tell you the truth, now I kind of regret buying it, because it's too slow, annoying and they suggest cloning it beforehand anyway. And if I understand correctly, one can accomplish the same thing by cloning it elsewhere, nuking de HD, and cloning back. Is this really so?

I haven´t checked this computer with iDefrag, but the symptoms are the same, and my wife has been using it with encryption for years without any maintenance. She has added and deleted hundreds of huge audio/video files through the years.

So, it's time for an overhaul! She will get rid of stuff she doesn't use any more, and she definitely wants Yosemite. The instructions from your link seem to give me what I need to know.

Gracias! 8)
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by bayswater »

Yes FM, you can defrag files and empty space by backing up the files, erasing the disk and copying the files back again. But sometimes, that's not practical if you have to re-authorizing a lot of stuff. It works fine on my DP project disk, but not sure I'd want to do that on my main partition. I don't use iDefrag a lot any more, but if I did, I'd let it run overnight.

Making a clone is recommended the same way a full backup is always recommended by anyone who about to fool around with your drive. I've never lost anything using iDefrag.

A lot of large video files could create the problem. IIRC, OS X doesn't defrag anything over 30Mb. And if the disk is getting full, the empty space gets fragmented and that will slow things down too.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by mikehalloran »

My bet is you will find very little file fragmentation, but a lot of free space fragments.
I'll take that bet! What shall we use as the benchmark -- over or under 10,000 fragmented files works for me. It's a sucker bet, BTW. Only small files critical to the OS are defragged. Check any busy drive with TechTool Pro and you'll see it.

Anyway, back to the OP. Since the Mac is running OS 10.6, it's on an Intel chip and the HD is on a SATA buss. Fragmentation is unlikely to be your issue. Apple is adamant that, no matter how fragmented they get, it won't slow down your drive and the last 5 years of testing and occasional de-fragging has convinced me that they are right. SSDs should never be de-fragmented and most commercial utilities will no longer defrag an SSD.

If you are thinking about updating to an SSD on this machine, now is the time to do it. Place the old drive in a USB housing or get one of those inexpensive external docks to hold it. This will be the drive you use to pull from using Migration Assistant.

If OS 10.8 runs, so will Yosemite. Many older Intel Macs are limited to OS 10.7.5.

A full Time Machine Restore erases the hard drive and cuts fragmentation way down. The last time I did it on my 1T iMac. When done, I had about 1,000 fragmented files and 130 free blocks which is practically non-existent. I checked.

Your most likely trouble spot is the drive itself trying to write to bad blocks or sectors–it can try over 60 times before trying to write somewhere else. Here's how I would handle it.

1) Boot from an external drive via usb - ideally, a drive running the same OS or newer. It can be a DVD drive with the restore disk but that is really slow. If your friend has Yosemite install loaded on a USB stick, that will work but it, too, will be slooooow.

2) Run Apple's Disk Utility - Repair Disk. If anything is red, run it again and again till you get the exact same errors three times in a row or it's fixed. BTW, if you have to do that, save yourself grief and replace the drive. Using Migration Assistant to pull from that drive will be faster than a complete Time Machine restore in most cases.

If you get no errors or something benign like minor directory errors, erase the disk with Write to Zeros enabled–one time is fine. Writing to Zeros forces the drive to write a new partition map excluding any damaged blocks it finds. If Disk Utility hangs up writing to zeros, say 20+ hours when it estimated 7 on a 1T drive, replace the hard drive.

Option-boot and restore from your Time Machine backup. Install Yosemite over that. You can also install Yosemite and restore your apps and settings using Migration Assistant.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

FMiguelez wrote:Hello.

My wife's laptop's internal HD, with Snow Leopard, is ridiculously slow. It is encrypted, so...
Have you tried turning encryption off? It can slow things down quite a bit.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by mikehalloran »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
FMiguelez wrote:Hello.

My wife's laptop's internal HD, with Snow Leopard, is ridiculously slow. It is encrypted, so...
Have you tried turning encryption off? It can slow things down quite a bit.
I have been known to overlook the obvious. He's right.

If turning encryption off fixes it -- and you still need encryption -- get an SSD. It's time.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by FMiguelez »

mikehalloran wrote:
MIDI Life Crisis wrote:
FMiguelez wrote:Hello.

My wife's laptop's internal HD, with Snow Leopard, is ridiculously slow. It is encrypted, so...
Have you tried turning encryption off? It can slow things down quite a bit.
I have been known to overlook the obvious. He's right.

If turning encryption off fixes it -- and you still need encryption -- get an SSD. It's time.
The thing is that having a portable laptop without encryption IS NOT a viable option in this city. Or in this country (thieves, kidnappers, con-artists, murderers, narcs, corrupt police, clandestine mass graves, burglars, coyotes, people waiting for the smallest opportunity to cheat and steal, crooked politicians... Should I go on?)

Really. We have most of our lives digitised in the computers, and it is just NOT safe to carry them around unprotected. It would be irresponsible. It would be asking for a true Mexican hellish nightmare...
If you want to be shocked, just tune-in to some of our latest news. Some really nice and peaceful stuff going on over the whole country lately... :(

But I agree it's time for an SSD. A big one!

I will do all the Yosemite installation and migration during the week.

Thank you, guys, for your advice. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Hey FM. There are likely two conflicting things going in here. One is encryption which is a strong suspect in the slowdown. The other is a security concern. But I wouldn't just assume encryption is the only cause. It probably is, but until you know for sure, just getting an SSD might just be throwing $$$ at the problem and not fix the cause. I'd suggest turning off encryption to test it and if that doesn't fix it further test are needed. If it does then at least you know what's going on.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by FMiguelez »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Hey FM. There are likely two conflicting things going in here. One is encryption which is a strong suspect in the slowdown. The other is a security concern. But I wouldn't just assume encryption is the only cause. It probably is, but until you know for sure, just getting an SSD might just be throwing $$$ at the problem and not fix the cause. I'd suggest turning off encryption to test it and if that doesn't fix it further test are needed. If it does then at least you know what's going on.
Hey, Mike.
Turns out, the computer has deeper problems...

My wife told me that the battery suddenly stopped charging. She also mentioned, in a very casual way, that she takes her computer to work and carries it around while it's IN SLEEP MODE :shock:
:shake:
:lol:
OMG!

She thought it was normal to do that! So we took it to a repair shop, and they say that part of the motherboard is damaged. The computer works when used with the power cord (on and off), but they tried different batteries and none of them charge. So according to their diagnostic, she needs to replace the motherboard :roll:

We took it to another Mac shop to get a second opinion, and they concurred. So the motherboard costs around 2/3's of a new computer. They also said that the HD seems damaged with lots of faulty sectors. But apparently, this was caused by some kind of short in the logic board, because when they opened it, it smelled and looked "burnt". She remembered that last week she plugged it in to a faulty wall socket that made a "funny" noise...

Thank Tlaloc that the computer is part of my studio's insurance policy. I'm just waiting for a quote to see if they will pay for the repair or it will be considered total loss... It looks like it will be the latter.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Good thing you didn't just pop a new drive in!
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by bayswater »

FMiguelez wrote: carries it around while it's IN SLEEP MODE
OK, I'll bite. What's wrong with that? When I take my MBP somewhere, I close the lid, put it in a small case, and carry it with me. Isn't that the same thing?
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Yeah, sleep mode is/should be fine for carrying around your machine.
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by FMiguelez »

Are you guys sure about that?

I know modern laptops have some motion sensor capabilities that "park" the HD when in motion, for occasional and casual movement, but not for carrying the computer around in the car, etc.

The technicians that checked the computer were horrified about what she had been doing...

Have I been misinformed? I'd like to know for sure!
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Re: Snow Leopard to Yosemite conundrum...

Post by bayswater »

FMiguelez wrote:Are you guys sure about that?

I know modern laptops have some motion sensor capabilities that "park" the HD when in motion, for occasional and casual movement, but not for carrying the computer around in the car, etc.

The technicians that checked the computer were horrified about what she had been doing...

Have I been misinformed? I'd like to know for sure!
To be honest, I've never thought about it. I assumed the drive spins down and parks in sleep mode. I've been carrying around sleeping laptops since the dual USB white iBook 13 years ago. I've never heard any recommendations for transportation, other than the specs about very high altitudes and extreme temperatures.

A quick Google shows this: "Sleep and moving the portable Mac: Since only the RAM is powered and Optical Drive and Hard Drive (the only mechanical hardware with moving bits) is not, you can safely transport your Mac as you see fit." from here: http://guides.macrumors.com/Your_Mac_and_Sleep_Mode

I'd assume a powered down hard drive has the heads parked. Otherwise, how could you ever transport it safely?
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