Upgrade help?

[HarmonicMotion]

Hi guys,

I hope this isn't a redundant thread. I searched and found a few similar like these two:

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... ow#p485249

http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtop ... ow#p482270

But I was wondering if anyone could give me a more specific answer before I start spending. Apologies if this has been asked here a lot.

Here is a ton of detail so that I've covered everything I think you need to know:

Basically I score anything from commercials to 100 minute features using Digital Performer 7.24 at buffer size 256 (for little latency). My sessions almost always have 2 instances of Vienna Ensemble loaded with 8 instruments each (selective samples to keep memory down), and 2 or 3 instances of kontakt with about 15 instruments each. Everything bundled on individual audio tracks (stripes) back into DP.

I am working on a MacBook Pro 2011, with a 2.2 GHz Intel Core i7 Processor, and 16 GB of Memory I bought from OWC. My internal drive is 750 Gb 5400 rpm (which is slow I know), and it holds a plethora of sample libraries (probably at least 400 GB) making it even slower. I'm running OSX 10.8.5, and always have both USB busses and my thunderbolt taken up for keyboard, ILoks and my external monitor. This computer has been great and I'm surprised I've made it this far with it, but as of recently it's running just slow enough that it's doubling my working speed (which is very bad for a film composer). Basically it's time to upgrade.

I originally thought I should take out the DVD drive and replace it with an internal SSD that holds the sample libraries, freeing up my startup disk to only run the applications. Even maybe getting a (gulp) Thunderbolt SSD external with an extra TB port on it for the monitor $$$$

Now I am worried that at some point even this set up will be too slow and that it's my Memory and my Processor that also will need an upgrade, since they are not exactly Pro level. I'm a bit too scared to build a computer and I can't afford a new Mac Pro. All I know is that on Activity Monitor my CPU and Memory are going crazy with a big session open. Often times DP will take up 400% of my CPU. Would simply moving my libraries to a faster drive and running the apps on the more free 5400 do enough to be worth it?

An other option I was considering is buying an older Mac Pro. Maybe a 2010 or 2012, or anything with a faster processor with more cores. Maybe an 8 core? or at least a 2.8 GHz one, and then install a sample library SSD in there and add max out the memory. Before I spend any money though, I thought I'd ask you guys here because I'm sure many of you have done this, or know more about how DP utilized your processor (I do have it set to use 4 cores).

Can anyone advise? Am I completely wrong? Please let me know if you need more information.

Thank you!

[bayswater]

For basic information Mactracker can give you some idea of the relative power and contents of all the Mac models, and let you narrow down the options to those that show some clear possibility for improvement. For example, your MBP has an overall processing rating of 10,006, while the 2012 Mac Pro rates from just under 10,000 to over 22,000 depending on the processor configuration.

[mikehalloran]

If youre feeling a little slow, SSDs will speed you up. There are many threads on this. A 1T Sanyo can be had under $500 now. Replace your system drive first. You may not feel the need to do anything else. If you want to get a second for your samples, you still have that option.

A 500G SSD is considered too small for 400G samples because of the amount of drive space dedicated to 'housekeeping'. Back to the low price on those new Sanyo drives. Those who have bought them have been very happy. I intend to join those ranks soon.

Your laptop will run faster, cooler and your battery will last longer. What's not to like? If you move to a new Mac later, put it into a TB enclosure.

[HarmonicMotion]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the quick responses.

Mike: Yes, this was my original idea. This is what I am afraid of:

1. Yes it will increase performance, but will I run into an other wall in the future. As far as I can see after upgrading my drives, there really isn't much more than can be upgraded in the MBPro. I've already maxed out my memory (and DP is using almost all of it, making my virtual memory size enormous). I just wonder if it's worth investing now in a machine that I won't need to upgrade for 3 years. And that I will be able to upgrade further.

2. Doing this will not increase my processor power, and my CPU is at 400% at times. It seems like I just don't have enough processor power at all. Is that not the case?

Bayswater: I downloaded the app. Surprised I've never heard of it, I guess you Canadians have the answers to everything. I knew I always loved your country!

I can't figured out how to find the overall processing rate you mentioned. I must just be not looking somewhere or being stupid

Thanks guys!

[bayswater]

Bayswater: I downloaded the app. Surprised I've never heard of it, I guess you Canadians have the answers to everything. I knew I always loved your country!

I can't figured out how to find the overall processing rate you mentioned. I must just be not looking somewhere or being stupid

Thanks guys!

Mactracker is part of the overall Canadian plan for world domination, along with bacon flavoured donuts.

To get the processor ratings, go to the "general" tab. Go to the line that says processor speed, and click on the blue text shows the processor options.

[HarmonicMotion]

Bayswater: I downloaded the app. Surprised I've never heard of it, I guess you Canadians have the answers to everything. I knew I always loved your country!

I can't figured out how to find the overall processing rate you mentioned. I must just be not looking somewhere or being stupid

Thanks guys!

Mactracker is part of the overall Canadian plan for world domination, along with bacon flavoured donuts.

To get the processor ratings, go to the "general" tab. Go to the line that says processor speed, and click on the blue text shows the processor options.

Perfect! Thank you!

[mikehalloran]

A few suggestions

Only run a 256 buffer when tracking. Increase it when doing anything else. This will reduce this hit to your CPU by quite a bit. Yes, it means changing the buffer size depending on what you're doing - like the rest of us. This could be your real problem, btw.

Update to DP 8 64 bit to use your CPU and RAM more efficiently.

8 and 7 coexist nicely. I am one of many who still uses 7.24 for revisiting older projects.

There may be a transition period while you upgrade third party plugs and VIs but if you make a living doing this, it's time to upgrade the toolbox. You don't have to do it all at once.

All of the above will get a lot more life out of your current Mac. At least until Apple releases the machine that you just can't live without.

[HarmonicMotion]

Hey Mike,

Thanks for the suggestions. I do already switch buffer sizes a lot, but it's not really working at 256 at all. Even 512 is iffy. Honestly though, because of the amount of Kontakt stuff I have, it takes so long to switch buffer sizes and reload the memory server that it's more of a waste of time than the general slowness. I switch most often when I move from tracking to mixing, and I've found several other things that I switch to optimize my computers speed between tracking and mixing.

I think your completely right about DP8. I downloaded the demo and all of my VSTs were recognized pretty well (some aren't supported in 64bit, but I know you can launch in 32bit). Of course as demos do, it ran out of time and I never bought the upgrade. I did like it a lot, seemed to be laid out better and some of the bundles problems I have in 7.24 weren't happening in 8.

[mikehalloran]

Even 512 is iffy

Me too. I run 1024

[HCMarkus]

https://web.archive.org/web/20131026053 ... -part-tbd/

Instructions above are for Dual-CPU 4,1 to 5,1 conversion. Note that the Single CPU 4,1-5,1 upgrade is super simple and very cost effective. At current market proices, you can buy a 4,1 quad and convert it into a 5,1 hex for about $1,300 including better GPU. Google it!

[HarmonicMotion]

Even 512 is iffy

Me too. I run 1024

I think you've misunderstood what I am saying. I often change to buffer to 1024 for mixing, and although still a bit slow, it's fast enough to mix.

What I am talking about is tracking. I have many virtual instruments and need to be able to record MIDI at 256. Anything more has so much latency that highly percussive parts are impossible to track. At 512 I can force my keyboard abilities to compensate, but still everything is iffy. Even so the amount of delay compensation I have to set with my mind is ridiculous. I am a professional piano player and I can not imagine many other guys sequencing are doing so with this much delay. So yes, I switch buffer sizes when I can, but I NEED the lower buffer sizes to even start on a single cue. Fact is my set up can not handle what I need at anything 512 and below.

HCMarkus, thank you for this link. I think the dual conversion may be a bit above my abilities at the moment. I'm too scared I'll screw something up, but you are saying the single is easy? Easy enough that even an idiot like myself could do?

Thank you for all the help guys.

[HCMarkus]

Easy enough that even an idiot like myself could do?

You sound smart enough to me.

It really is a rather fun project. Ridiculously simple, and extremely gratifying when you realize how much power you get and how much money you save. Macofalltrades was running a "deal of the day" for a couple of days: 2010 single CPU quads for $999 (I just checked, back up to $1099 today). With the 2010, you get a 5770 GPU, which seems to be about minimum for good DP performance with video. And the machine is ready to rock a W3680 or W3690 Hex CPU with no EFI flashing required (the 2009's need the flash to use the Hex CPUs and the stock GPU is rather anemic, but fully upgradeable). Prices on used Hex 3680s is dropping to around $300, so, do the math... 5,1 Hex 3.33 MP for $1,300 is a good deal in most anyone's book.

Everybody around here has heard it all from me before... sorry for the repetition guys and gals, but I have been way too happy with my upgraded MP to keep it a secret. I've been running a ton of DP sessions and loving it.

[HarmonicMotion]

HCMarkus:

Thank you for this! Yes on second look, I do think I can do this. I may hold off for a while and see how much better performance I get out of a 2.8 processor with a faster boot drive and two solid states for sample libraries and apps first, and then do the upgrade in a few months once I've got more time to do it.

It seems to be much cheaper to buy two 480 GB solid states than 1 960 GB. Is there any disadvantage to having libraries split up between 2 drives? It doesn't seem like there would be, but perhaps I am overlooking something.

Thanks for all the help guys!