to SSD or not to SSD

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Renaissance Man
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to SSD or not to SSD

Post by Renaissance Man »

I'm looking at adding another hard drive to my early 2008 Mac Intel.
What got me started was wanting to update the OS to Mavericks.
In the past I've lived dangerously and just installed the updates and upgrades. This time I'd like to copy the existing OS drive as a back up before the upgrade.
I have WD drives in the other two bays and could easily add another, but was wondering if it's a good idea to update the OS drive to a solid state drive.
Are there any advantages (within the DP environment and EastWest's Quantam Leap Pianos) to getting the OS drive upgraded to an SSD (other than the obvious faster boot times)?
Drive #1- OS drive
Drive #2- "work drive" for current projects
Drive #3- EastWest's Quantam Leap Pianos
Use GT 050Q quad interface external hard drives to back up projects
Mac Pro Early 2008 8-core 2.8, 16GB RAM, SSD, El Capitan, DP9.5.4; Waves Mercury V9.6 + SSL 4000 Collection, SyncroArts VocAlign Project 3, EastWest Quantum Leap Pianos & Voices of Soul, Nomad Factory Integral Studio Pack, BBE D82 Sonic Maximizer, Slate Digital VCC RC Tube and Trigger, MOTU PCIe 424, 3-2408Mk3's, 24io, MTP AV USB, Apogee A/D & Big Ben, CraneSong HEDD 192, ATC monitors, racks full of outboard, 90 microphones, MIDI/keyboard rig, house drums & tuned percussion etc...
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buzzsmith
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by buzzsmith »

In my case, I installed an SSD drive and bought Lion and installed it to the SSD and then upgraded to Mountain Lion on that drive. (Not quite ready for Mavericks.)

I was very careful to not let anything overwrite my primary HD which was/is running SL 10.6.8. Just in case and there are many apps that I use which are not compatible with ML.

I also installed DP 8.06 on the SSD.

Since the SSD with ML is recognized as a different OS (hence a different computer almost) I went through about a week's worth of time (in occasional hour increments) with re-authorizations and defining new pathways for already authorized VIs and plugins.

I avoided the clone to SSD route as I wanted a super clean install on the new drive.

Others might disagree or have easier solutions.

Bottom line, it's working fine and the older drive was not altered and is available with its system and apps when needed.

The only thing that I'm still avoiding, until I am 100% comfortable, is updating some VIs and plugs that reside on a 3rd drive because some of the updates won't run under 10.6.8. 10.7 or higher.

As time goes by...

Buzzy
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by Renaissance Man »

Buzzy,
Have you noticed any increases in performance with the SSD other than boot time?
Mac Pro Early 2008 8-core 2.8, 16GB RAM, SSD, El Capitan, DP9.5.4; Waves Mercury V9.6 + SSL 4000 Collection, SyncroArts VocAlign Project 3, EastWest Quantum Leap Pianos & Voices of Soul, Nomad Factory Integral Studio Pack, BBE D82 Sonic Maximizer, Slate Digital VCC RC Tube and Trigger, MOTU PCIe 424, 3-2408Mk3's, 24io, MTP AV USB, Apogee A/D & Big Ben, CraneSong HEDD 192, ATC monitors, racks full of outboard, 90 microphones, MIDI/keyboard rig, house drums & tuned percussion etc...
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by buzzsmith »

No question. System seems much more responsive and quicker. (I was tempted to use our buzzword, "snappier".)

DP seems more invigorated, too.

Buzzy
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by billgers »

I just went through this exact process with the same generation mac pro and I am very glad that I did, It took me countless hours to do a clean install of everything and update all my plugs and software, but the bottom line is that everything is snappier and I have yet to have a single crash (I was starting to have quite a few in DP 7.24 in the final months of using it with OS 10.6.80). I think part of the improved performance is just the fact that I did a clean install and got rid of 10 years worth of garbage that had accrued as I migrated it from computer to computer. By getting rid of the junk, I was able to save money by only going with a 250GB SSD boot drive and it seems to be more than enough even though it is smaller than my old drive. Even though I get warnings as I load up the Play engine that I am going to have memory problems, I just ignore the warnings and everything loads and plays perfectly without a hitch. No glitches and no weirdness in actual use. I haven't pushed it with a really large project yet, but so far I am very happy with the transition. And yes, your computer will boot in an extremely short time.
2018 Mac Mini 3.2 GHz Intel Core i7 with 32 GB RAM and 2 TB SSD
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by buzzsmith »

Very glad I did it.

I'm still dual boot capable when I need to go back and use some apps that are not ML friendly...Quicken, for instance.

And I am still stumbling upon a few paid for apps that I don't use often that can't find their authorizations but I think I'm down to just 2 or 3 of those.

Pleased...

Buzzy
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by HCMarkus »

I only use spinning drives for backup (multiple copies, always!) these days. If my Mac crashes - rare, but it happens now and again - it reboots in seconds. Projects load much quicker when samples and audio files reside on SSD, and RAM buffers can be minimized due to quick response from SSDs when the music calls.

Once you try an SSD you will never want to go back to mechanical drives.
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by buzzsmith »

Yes, I'm thinking about moving all of the VIs and plugs to another SSD. I'm just hoping I won't have to go through another week of reauthorizations. :)


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Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by mikehalloran »

...Quicken, for instance.
Yea... :brucelee:

Quicken Essentials works in 32bit only and will not boot in 64bit if it detects HP printer drivers (before, it crashed in 64bit). I can live with that without liking it. I just installed the 1.74 update this morning.
http://quicken.intuit.com/personal-fina ... ftware.jsp

QuickBooks 2014 only works in ML and later. Interestingly, depending on your link or reseller, you may not know that a non-subscription, stand-alone version exists. What the ...? I installed the R6 update but noticed no differences - at least none negative. Hmmmm... they've updated the web site - both versions are now on the same page (a little push-back, perhaps?)
http://quickbooks.intuit.com/pro/?cid=p ... 23222127:s

Intuit seems to forget that they make million$ from Mac users. It would be nice if we saw real updates more often. The stuff works when it's current...

Pass me another glass, ok? :koolaid:
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by buzzsmith »

Yep. I think Quicken 2007 is the "newest". 7 years ago!!??


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Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by HCMarkus »

Just a couple of thoughts on SSDs to share…

1. I just compared boot times with cloned OS drives on my Mac Pro running Mountain Lion:

Intel 330 SSD on SATA II: 7 seconds from post
Seagate 7200 RPM 2 TB on SATA II: 1 minute 45 seconds from post

To SSD or not to SSD is no longer a question. SSDs are well worth the investment, saving time and operating reliably. But always back up, no matter what drive you use!

2. All SSDs will perform best and last longer if they are Trimmed. I know what OWC said in 2011, "no trim needed on our drives," but extensive research has me 100% certain that all SSDs (edit: that support Trim) will benefit from Trim, even SandForce-based drives like the OWC SSDs. I can state this with certainty based on documentation furnished by SandForce, and as a result of having gathered a solid understanding of how Trim works. Just remember that Trim and Garbage Collection are two different things. Some good posts and links on the subject here:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1754767

3. Trim is easy to activate on Macs. Use this to make it happen: http://www.cindori.org/software/trimenabler/

4. Disk Utility under Mountain Lion and Mavericks have been confirmed to force-trim all empty space on SSDs as part of the Repair Disk process if Trim is enabled before repair. This means you can enable Trim on a drive that has already been in use and restore it to peak performance quickly without having to use Terminal.

Note that you must boot from another drive to repair the Boot SSD. Make sure Trim is enabled on the second boot drive, too, or Trim won't happen when you repair your Boot SSD.

As noted by HFG over at MacRumors.com, there are a few requirements:
- Trim must be enabled
- select the formatted disk, not the top-level disk to "repair"
- the SSD being repaired must be on a trim-capable interface (NOT in a USB 3.0 dock or enclosure)

At the end of the repair status messages, you will see a message that all free space has been trimmed.
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by mikehalloran »

Trim will work only on internal drives and external drives connected via eSATA. As far as I know, there are attempts to make it work through Thunderbolt but that's not yet ready for prime time.

Please feel free to correct me if that information is no longer correct.
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by HCMarkus »

mikehalloran wrote:Trim will work only on internal drives and external drives connected via eSATA. As far as I know, there are attempts to make it work through Thunderbolt but that's not yet ready for prime time.

Please feel free to correct me if that information is no longer correct.
Not sure about TB (outside the realm of my experience or requirements at this time), but you may be correct Mike. I understand Trim IS supported when using PCIe SSDs.
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by HCMarkus »

If you're in the market, take a look a this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8260/best-ssds-july-2014
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Re: to SSD or not to SSD

Post by mikehalloran »

HCMarkus wrote:If you're in the market, take a look a this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8260/best-ssds-july-2014
I am in the market for a 1T SSD. Thanks for posting that.

There are some interesting biases in that report. It makes a deal about the Extreme having an endurance of only 80TB without explaining that's around 22GB per day for ten years - something to take note in an enterprise server but it's not going to affect many - if any - consumers or pro users.

One advantage that the Extreme has is a smaller page size of 64k - still somewhat useful in this age of bloatware. Another is that it is $125 less for a 1T.

The 850 Pro does appear to be an awesome piece of hardware, though. I'll give it that.

I'll be buying in the next month or two unless someone pops a deal that I can't turn away. Not sure which way as I don't think I will notice any difference between the two in real world performance. The speeds are the same; the 10 year warranty, likewise.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that both are shipping and at somewhat reasonable prices.
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Extreme-2 ... B00KHRYR0U

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Electroni ... ng+850+pro
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
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