Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

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Scorer
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:19 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Scorer »

Hi guys,

I'm setting up a larger orchestral template and I'm running into an issue...

After a certain amount of tracks, I cannot access the Sequence window anymore. DP works, I can work in the TO, MIDI and Mixer windows just fine but the Seq window throws this error when trying to access it:

Digital Performer has encountered an error.
OS error:
Internal Program Error (null pointer) (-108)

Since I'm not sure how to see how many tracks are currently used in a given project (is there like a project info or stats section somewhere ?), I ran some tests on a brand new, empty project.

when staying at or below these track numbers I can still access the Seq window. If I go above, the error is triggered.

MIDI tracks: ~ 600
AUX tracks: ~ 190

I've confirmed this on 3 machines all running DP 9.12 (also tried DP 9.02). Just to be clear: I can create more tracks and work but cannot access the Seq window anymore.

Does anybody have the same issues ?

I'm very confused about this since I've not read anywhere about a hard track limit, and if so, DP would probably throw a dedicated error message. And why would only the Seq window not be accessible... (?) Also, there are users who run more tracks than that...

Any pointers or info ?

Thanks !
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bayswater
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by bayswater »

Your answer may be here viewtopic.php?f=31&t=61794

Also wondering, although there is no specific track number limit, could you have hit the bus limit?
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
Scorer
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:19 pm
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Scorer »

Hi bays,

thanks for helping out.

I read the other thread already, but no help there.

In my main project, I've set DP up to have 99 stereo buses available and on my main project I only used about 20 buses...

But anyways, on these additional tests that I ran, I just opened a brand new, empty project and started creating MIDI and AUX tracks... zero buses used.

Anybody using the Windows version, try this:

1. start the DP 9 x64 and create a new project
2. add 500 aux tracks (ctrl+shift+alt+a)
3. then add 500 MIDI tracks (ctrl+shift+alt+m)
4. now try to access the SEQUENCE window

On three different machines, the procedure above will throw an error: 2 x Win 8.1 (x64) and 1 x Win 7 x64 (x64) machine

The track limit that I found that still works on all 3 machines is <= 800 altogether (MIDI and AUX, but this seems to include Audio tracks as well)...

On the x86 version, this track limit is lower.

Can anybody on Windows please run above steps real quick and report back here if they get the same error ?

Thanks !
PoliticalBonobo
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Location: Denver, Colorado

Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

I've gotten this error before with far fewer tracks you're using. I'm curious, do you have plugins loaded or are you running in "Safe Mode"?
DP9.5 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo Quad FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 48gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive). VEP 6
Scorer
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Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Scorer »

On my main project, I do have plugins loaded (not many), but like I wrote you can re-create this error with a brand new, empty project.

On the other 2 machines (that I tested and also encountered this error) are no plugins installed at all.

what is "safe mode" ?

did you find a solution to the problem ?
PoliticalBonobo
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

Safe Mode, meaning when you go into the list of plugins in Preferences, you disable all of them. I'm curious to see if the limit still occurs, but I'm guessing it does given your consistent results on other machines.

When I had the issue, I couldn't reproduce it consistently, so I started to believe it was plugin related. I went into the plugin list and disabled all of them, adding each one back in one-by-one. I seemed to hit a range of enabled plugins that cause it to occur. Then I upgraded to 9.12 and that seemed to fix my problem completely.

However, it just occurred today in fact. I think it's the video that I had loaded in DP causing the problems. Without it, I haven't had the issue. With it, it's glitchy AF and I get that error. Must be something with how the video was encoded that Windows DP doesn't like.

I'm sure that doesn't help you. I would tell MOTU your findings.
DP9.5 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo Quad FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 48gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive). VEP 6
Scorer
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Scorer »

ah, got ya !

Yeah, just tested this on a virgin machine. No plugins installed other than default MOTU ones. Disabled all of them. Restarted DP. Added 500 MIDI and 500 AUX tracks. No video used. Get the same error.

We had somebody sent MOTU a message about this.

Re video:
I ran into some other crazy video issues with DP on one machine (posted that in another thread), and it's not the video encoding. It's DP, at least the Windows version seems to have some major problems.

Re -108 error:
problem is we're building a larger orchestral template and we would need to go beyond that limit (that we consistently reproduce to be around 790). but even if we stay below it, templates always expand at one point...

very disappointing and seriously considering moving to a different DAW... who knows what else is popping up along the way that we're currently not aware of yet...(?) huge waste of time building these large templates when at the end you can't work with them properly.

I don't use the Seq editor a lot (I use mostly TO, MIDI editor, Mixer) but once in a while I like to fan out all the CC data in the Seq editor...

:(

Btw, I'm certain I know what the issue is (other than amateur coding). The Seq editor can't handle querying that many tracks (because the Seq editor shows much more data per track than the TO or MIDI editor). That is, IF the tracks are all displayed and are not hidden or sitting inside folders, for whatever the current Seq editor view setup is.

If u could hide tracks (via track selector) and or move them into closed folders before going into the Seq editor (basically creating the view for the Seq editor before accessing it), and then that view was used by the Seq editor, then it would most likely work.

(we tested this on a Mac install, where this problem does not occur, but the Seq editor access majorly slows down if many tracks are open in that particular view - but if u have 3,000 tracks in a template but they are in folders or hidden, access to the Seq editor is super snappy quick)

But AFAIK, you can only change the view of a section when you're already inside that section and then work with the track selector to show/hide tracks.

Or is there any way to globally set the track view via the track selector and to have that carried over to any other section ?
PoliticalBonobo
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

Scorer wrote:
Btw, I'm certain I know what the issue is (other than amateur coding). The Seq editor can't handle querying that many tracks (because the Seq editor shows much more data per track than the TO or MIDI editor). That is, IF the tracks are all displayed and are not hidden or sitting inside folders, for whatever the current Seq editor view setup is.

If u could hide tracks (via track selector) and or move them into closed folders before going into the Seq editor (basically creating the view for the Seq editor before accessing it), and then that view was used by the Seq editor, then it would most likely work.

But AFAIK, you can only change the view of a section when you're already inside that section and then work with the track selector to show/hide tracks.

Or is there any way to globally set the track view via the track selector and to have that carried over to any other section ?
Yeah, I think you're right.I remember having to get into Seq Editor, which hopefully didn't crash it, and quickly deselect a lot of my tracks in the Track Selector. God forbid if I accidentally re-selected those track folders in Seq Editor.

I also don't see a way to globally keep tracks selected :(

Report back on what MOTU says. I'm curious because I've started a large orchestral template as well.

And I am so getting on them about that video then! They should be able to figure out why certain videos cause issues and others don't and fix the damn thing.
DP9.5 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo Quad FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 48gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive). VEP 6
Scorer
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Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Scorer »

if MOTU replies or I find a solution/workaround I'll definitely post here.

btw, when u test this in a new, empty project, is your max "track limit" also around 790 until this error pops up ?

try like 500 MIDI track and 310 AUX tracks... and then remove tracks until the Seq window is accessible again... would be interesting to know if the number is the same for all Windows peeps...
PoliticalBonobo
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

Scorer wrote:if MOTU replies or I find a solution/workaround I'll definitely post here.

btw, when u test this in a new, empty project, is your max "track limit" also around 790 until this error pops up ?

try like 500 MIDI track and 310 AUX tracks... and then remove tracks until the Seq window is accessible again... would be interesting to know if the number is the same for all Windows peeps...
I added 500 MIDI tracks and 300 AUX tracks, and the error came up. I kept the 500 MIDI tracks but had to go down to 125 AUX tracks before I could access the SE.
DP9.5 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo Quad FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 48gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive). VEP 6
Scorer
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Scorer »

MOTU has acknowledged the problem and are working on a fix.
the_rpg_moogle
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by the_rpg_moogle »

Scorer wrote:MOTU has acknowledged the problem and are working on a fix.
I too have made a techlink for this, as I get the exact same issue. It's said the problem is being worked on. I admit it is a strange issue, and one that should be fixed as soon as possible. In the meantime, I'd try and keep my tracks to a minimum as much as possible, and hope for a quick fix.
Tama300
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by Tama300 »

Same problem here :/ I'll follow this topic
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corbo-billy
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by corbo-billy »

Scorer wrote:MOTU has acknowledged the problem and are working on a fix.
I confirm because the error message does not appear by including the number of tracks described above in this topic .
Sorry , I'm under SIERRA , with an Apple computer: I just noticed my error ... :oops:
Imac M1 24" under Monterey 12.7 & Kontakt 7.6. _ Fireface800 X 2 _ FilterBank2 Sherman & Gibson Explorer Pro _ MIDI Express XT _ Virus C Desktop _ Adrenalinn III & Voyager Moog _ SpeakerPhone 2 _ PolyEvolver Keyboard _ Tempest _ D.P. 11.22 _
MatteoNahum
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Re: Max tracks limit ? Null Pointer -108 Error

Post by MatteoNahum »

Wow...I switched from Mac (where DP runs perfectly) to Windows and when completed my template I got that same error.
I can see here that they're aware of the problem since 2017 at least and we're nearly in 2020.
Should I really change DAW?
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