It is currently Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:52 pm
   
Text Size

Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

For seeking technical help with Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on Windows.

Moderators: James Steele, Shooshie

Forum rules
This forum is for seeking solutions to technical problems involving Digital Performer and/or plug-ins on Windows, as well as feature requests, criticisms, comparison to other DAWs.

Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:36 am

I have a project with a constant tempo set (on Conductor track mode), and someone gave me a .MIDI that has automated tempo changes to give a rubato effect. As you might guess, copying this into my project messes up everything else that's set to my project tempo.

Is there a way to independently control tempo on a MIDI track? My current workaround is to copy this .MIDI into another project file and bounce to audio, copy back into my working project. But there's got to be a better way.
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby buzzsmith » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:44 am

One quick 2nd cup of coffee thought...

Open the MIDI file in a new project and strip the tempo changes, save and import back into your project.

Buzzy


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.01 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)

User avatar
buzzsmith
 
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Houston
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:43 am

Thanks, Buzzy. But is there a way to keep those captured tempo changes in the MIDI track when I import to my main project (without screwing with the project tempo)? Or is that simply impossible...
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby buzzsmith » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:46 am

Is it an overlay to something that you've already done or a separate section either before or after what you've done?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.01 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV

Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)

User avatar
buzzsmith
 
Posts: 2897
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 11:01 pm
Location: Houston
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby stubbsonic » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:54 am

If I'm understanding you, you either want to have a sequence that has two different tempos-- one for the imported tracks, and one for the rest of your project and have them play at the same time, OR, you want to render the other tracks in realtime into your project, preserving the tempo-mapped timing of the incoming notes, etc. but running off the project's tempo after that.

You could use an external sequencer for playback with the tempo-map, and record the MIDI output (in Multi-Record mode) into your DP project unsynced. If you put a "slate note" on beat one, you can slide it to align as needed. You can also scale time if there's any clock issues.
RMBP (2.6 i7), FF800, OS 10.10.5, DP8, Kontakt, Reaktor, K2661S, K2500RS, iPad4, (also an old sawtooth G4 with a UAD-1 for legacy apps).

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
User avatar
stubbsonic
 
Posts: 2221
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:56 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby bayswater » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:39 pm

PoliticalBonobo wrote:Thanks, Buzzy. But is there a way to keep those captured tempo changes in the MIDI track when I import to my main project (without screwing with the project tempo)? Or is that simply impossible...

You can't have two different tempos at once, but you can lock tracks so they stay frozen to the original SMPTE timing when the tempo changes. You could freeze the material already in your sequence, then import the new track with its tempo map.

BTW, multiple tempos is a DP feature I've wanted forever. KCS did this really well.
iMac 27" i7 16G, DP 8.07/9.02 & OS 10.12.3, Logic 10.3.1, Scarlett 18i8
MBP 16G DP 9.12 & OS 10.12.3, Lexicon Alpha
Dual 2.0G G5 PCI 2G, DP 7.24 & OS 10.5.8, 2408 MKII, UAD-1
User avatar
bayswater
 
Posts: 7848
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:06 pm
Location: Vancouver
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:24 pm

buzzsmith wrote:Is it an overlay to something that you've already done or a separate section either before or after what you've done?


I would load this onto a blank MIDI track.
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:36 pm

stubbsonic wrote:You could use an external sequencer for playback with the tempo-map, and record the MIDI output (in Multi-Record mode) into your DP project unsynced. If you put a "slate note" on beat one, you can slide it to align as needed. You can also scale time if there's any clock issues.


If I'm understanding correctly, do you essentially mean I could record to an audio track in DP with it set to record from another DAW/sequencer that's playing the MIDI file? I like this idea, but if I open a secondary DAW to run in ReWire mode, it'll match the DP project tempo. Or am I not following at all?
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:08 pm

bayswater wrote:You can't have two different tempos at once, but you can lock tracks so they stay frozen to the original SMPTE timing when the tempo changes. You could freeze the material already in your sequence, then import the new track with its tempo map.

BTW, multiple tempos is a DP feature I've wanted forever. KCS did this really well.


I'll try this. I'm curious what happens to the project when I unfreeze.

I don't know ProTools very well, but I thought it could have each individual track be project tempo independent.
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby bayswater » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:40 pm

PoliticalBonobo wrote:I'll try this. I'm curious what happens to the project when I unfreeze.

IIRC, nothing. It just prevents moves in the timeline via edits.
iMac 27" i7 16G, DP 8.07/9.02 & OS 10.12.3, Logic 10.3.1, Scarlett 18i8
MBP 16G DP 9.12 & OS 10.12.3, Lexicon Alpha
Dual 2.0G G5 PCI 2G, DP 7.24 & OS 10.5.8, 2408 MKII, UAD-1
User avatar
bayswater
 
Posts: 7848
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:06 pm
Location: Vancouver
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby HCMarkus » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:17 pm

I think "bounce to audio and import" is almost certainly the best and most efficient way to handle this, absent starting from scratch and using the rubato tempo map as the project map.
User avatar
HCMarkus
 
Posts: 5845
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:01 am
Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:54 pm

In general, can someone tell me how this works with MIDI and tempo? I didn't realize MIDI stored tempo information, and I think it's bizarre that the MIDI stores tempo information for the whole project. I could understand if there were a CC message associated with the MIDI tempo (that'd be nice, in fact!).
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby stubbsonic » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:05 pm

A MIDI sequence can have a single tempo at the beginning of the track, and I suspect if there isn't a specific EVENT for one, it will default to something. If a person rendered a tempo map, that tempo could change any time. And this makes sense, if you wanted the tempo to change partway through a beat, you would need a tempo event to exist partway through the beat. So things like tap-tempo can be used to put events every beat, or every 8th note. And tempo events can be inserted at any point.

Tempo events are not CC's. They are their own MIDI animal.

The question of when and how to insert tempo information is kind of a tricky one. I've recorded MIDI tracks with a single tempo then hard-quantized, then tapped a tempo in and then go back and re-record parts as needed.

Another option is to use DP's tap tempo function in realtime-- you can assign a MIDI event to generate the tap. The only hitch with that is you have to tap your foot which you might like to use on a damper pedal.
RMBP (2.6 i7), FF800, OS 10.10.5, DP8, Kontakt, Reaktor, K2661S, K2500RS, iPad4, (also an old sawtooth G4 with a UAD-1 for legacy apps).

http://www.jonstubbsmusic.com
User avatar
stubbsonic
 
Posts: 2221
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:56 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby bayswater » Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:56 pm

PoliticalBonobo wrote:In general, can someone tell me how this works with MIDI and tempo? I didn't realize MIDI stored tempo information, and I think it's bizarre that the MIDI stores tempo information for the whole project. I could understand if there were a CC message associated with the MIDI tempo (that'd be nice, in fact!).

Tempo is a MIDI event. When you bring the MIDI file that contains the tempo information into a sequence in DP, you are asked if you want to merge it with existing tempo information. If you do, it becomes part of the tempo map governing the sequence (not the project).

Did you try locking the tracks in the sequence before the MIDI file is brought in?
iMac 27" i7 16G, DP 8.07/9.02 & OS 10.12.3, Logic 10.3.1, Scarlett 18i8
MBP 16G DP 9.12 & OS 10.12.3, Lexicon Alpha
Dual 2.0G G5 PCI 2G, DP 7.24 & OS 10.5.8, 2408 MKII, UAD-1
User avatar
bayswater
 
Posts: 7848
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:06 pm
Location: Vancouver
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: Importing MIDI with tempo changes (rubato)

Postby PoliticalBonobo » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:04 am

bayswater wrote:Did you try locking the tracks in the sequence before the MIDI file is brought in?


I did, and unfortunately it doesn't quite work in my setup. This is because you can only freeze MIDI tracks along with the Instrument, but my Instrument is in a separate V-Rack. I will use this idea in the future though.

Also, I bounced the MIDI performance I'm trying to import and loaded it into my project. The timing of the performance is off. I know I said it was rubato, but I thought the beats might still be on the grid (a tempo rubato). So it won't even work in this case!
DP9.12 64bit, Windows 10 Pro 64bit, UA Apollo FireWire interface, Desktop: Intel i7 5820K at 4.0ghz, MSI X99A Gaming 7 mobo, 32gb RAM (DDR4 at 2133 mhz), MSI GTX 960 2GD5T 2GB, 512GB Samsung 950 Pro m.2 SSD (project/system drive)
PoliticalBonobo
 
Posts: 175
Joined: Sat May 23, 2015 7:38 pm
Location: Denver, Colorado
Primary DAW OS: Windows

Next

Return to Digital Performer [Windows]: Troubleshooting/Criticism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 151 on Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:07 pm

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

Login Form