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I have a project with a constant tempo set (on Conductor track mode), and someone gave me a .MIDI that has automated tempo changes to give a rubato effect. As you might guess, copying this into my project messes up everything else that's set to my project tempo.

Is there a way to independently control tempo on a MIDI track? My current workaround is to copy this .MIDI into another project file and bounce to audio, copy back into my working project. But there's got to be a better way.

One quick 2nd cup of coffee thought...

Open the MIDI file in a new project and strip the tempo changes, save and import back into your project.

Buzzy


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Thanks, Buzzy. But is there a way to keep those captured tempo changes in the MIDI track when I import to my main project (without screwing with the project tempo)? Or is that simply impossible...

Is it an overlay to something that you've already done or a separate section either before or after what you've done?


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If I'm understanding you, you either want to have a sequence that has two different tempos-- one for the imported tracks, and one for the rest of your project and have them play at the same time, OR, you want to render the other tracks in realtime into your project, preserving the tempo-mapped timing of the incoming notes, etc. but running off the project's tempo after that.

You could use an external sequencer for playback with the tempo-map, and record the MIDI output (in Multi-Record mode) into your DP project unsynced. If you put a "slate note" on beat one, you can slide it to align as needed. You can also scale time if there's any clock issues.

PoliticalBonobo wrote:Thanks, Buzzy. But is there a way to keep those captured tempo changes in the MIDI track when I import to my main project (without screwing with the project tempo)? Or is that simply impossible...

You can't have two different tempos at once, but you can lock tracks so they stay frozen to the original SMPTE timing when the tempo changes. You could freeze the material already in your sequence, then import the new track with its tempo map.

BTW, multiple tempos is a DP feature I've wanted forever. KCS did this really well.

buzzsmith wrote:Is it an overlay to something that you've already done or a separate section either before or after what you've done?

I would load this onto a blank MIDI track.

stubbsonic wrote: You could use an external sequencer for playback with the tempo-map, and record the MIDI output (in Multi-Record mode) into your DP project unsynced. If you put a "slate note" on beat one, you can slide it to align as needed. You can also scale time if there's any clock issues.

If I'm understanding correctly, do you essentially mean I could record to an audio track in DP with it set to record from another DAW/sequencer that's playing the MIDI file? I like this idea, but if I open a secondary DAW to run in ReWire mode, it'll match the DP project tempo. Or am I not following at all?

bayswater wrote: You can't have two different tempos at once, but you can lock tracks so they stay frozen to the original SMPTE timing when the tempo changes. You could freeze the material already in your sequence, then import the new track with its tempo map.

BTW, multiple tempos is a DP feature I've wanted forever. KCS did this really well.

I'll try this. I'm curious what happens to the project when I unfreeze.

I don't know ProTools very well, but I thought it could have each individual track be project tempo independent.

PoliticalBonobo wrote:I'll try this. I'm curious what happens to the project when I unfreeze.

IIRC, nothing. It just prevents moves in the timeline via edits.

I think "bounce to audio and import" is almost certainly the best and most efficient way to handle this, absent starting from scratch and using the rubato tempo map as the project map.

In general, can someone tell me how this works with MIDI and tempo? I didn't realize MIDI stored tempo information, and I think it's bizarre that the MIDI stores tempo information for the whole project. I could understand if there were a CC message associated with the MIDI tempo (that'd be nice, in fact!).

A MIDI sequence can have a single tempo at the beginning of the track, and I suspect if there isn't a specific EVENT for one, it will default to something. If a person rendered a tempo map, that tempo could change any time. And this makes sense, if you wanted the tempo to change partway through a beat, you would need a tempo event to exist partway through the beat. So things like tap-tempo can be used to put events every beat, or every 8th note. And tempo events can be inserted at any point.

Tempo events are not CC's. They are their own MIDI animal.

The question of when and how to insert tempo information is kind of a tricky one. I've recorded MIDI tracks with a single tempo then hard-quantized, then tapped a tempo in and then go back and re-record parts as needed.

Another option is to use DP's tap tempo function in realtime-- you can assign a MIDI event to generate the tap. The only hitch with that is you have to tap your foot which you might like to use on a damper pedal.

PoliticalBonobo wrote:In general, can someone tell me how this works with MIDI and tempo? I didn't realize MIDI stored tempo information, and I think it's bizarre that the MIDI stores tempo information for the whole project. I could understand if there were a CC message associated with the MIDI tempo (that'd be nice, in fact!).

Tempo is a MIDI event. When you bring the MIDI file that contains the tempo information into a sequence in DP, you are asked if you want to merge it with existing tempo information. If you do, it becomes part of the tempo map governing the sequence (not the project).

Did you try locking the tracks in the sequence before the MIDI file is brought in?

bayswater wrote: Did you try locking the tracks in the sequence before the MIDI file is brought in?

I did, and unfortunately it doesn't quite work in my setup. This is because you can only freeze MIDI tracks along with the Instrument, but my Instrument is in a separate V-Rack. I will use this idea in the future though.

Also, I bounced the MIDI performance I'm trying to import and loaded it into my project. The timing of the performance is off. I know I said it was rubato, but I thought the beats might still be on the grid (a tempo rubato). So it won't even work in this case!