Gain automation tool?

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PoliticalBonobo
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Gain automation tool?

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

In Ableton Live, there's a plugin called Utility that has a simple gain adjustment knob that you can automate. I don't see anything similar in DP9, so what's the simplest plugin that can be used for automating gain (not volume)?
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MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Bite gain automation is not possible in DP AFAIK. You can set the gain for each soundbite but that's pretty much it.
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PoliticalBonobo
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Bite gain automation is not possible in DP AFAIK. You can set the gain for each soundbite but that's pretty much it.
I'd be looking more for automating gain on a whole track. I saw a composer do it that way instead of volume automation, to allow fader volume adjustment while keeping the gain automation in tact. As I'm writing this though, I don't see what difference there would be if I used gain on a track to set overall volume and added automation to the volume fader. I guess my question still stands then, what would you use to set the gain on a track? Maybe a compressor with no compression?
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Kurt Cowling
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by Kurt Cowling »

In that case I normally automate volume and if I find it needs a global adjustment later I insert the Trim plugin (either post-fader or last in the insert chain).

I take it from your description that you aren't looking to automate gain before your inserts, but if you were I'd use the Trim plug-in, but put it first in the chain.

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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

Kurt Cowling wrote:In that case I normally automate volume and if I find it needs a global adjustment later I insert the Trim plugin (either post-fader or last in the insert chain).

I take it from your description that you aren't looking to automate gain before your inserts, but if you were I'd use the Trim plug-in, but put it first in the chain.

--Kurt
I'll try that, thanks. Why can't you use Trim for automation?
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

I'm curious why you would want to automate gain instead of a simple volume command? For that matter, you could use the Dynamic plug-in or even send the track to an AUX track and automate the volume there. But it still begs the question: why are you avoiding using ctl#7?
Last edited by MIDI Life Crisis on Mon May 16, 2016 11:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by Kurt Cowling »

You can, but I find it easier to automate the volume fader because there are several ways to do it and I like the visual feedback.
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:I'm curious why you would want to automate gain instead of a simple volume command? For that matter, you could use the Dynamic plug-in or even send the track to an AUX track and automate the volume there. But it still begs the question: why are you avoiding using ctl#7?
Heh, ok ok, what's this ctrl+7? (I'm too impatient to wait to get home to my computer to find out for myself)
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

Standard MIDI control #7=volume. #1=modulation. #10=pan. #11=expression. #64=pedals. There are lots of them...

If you don't understand MIDI controllers you're missing a very large part of working on ANY DAW. But you haven't answered my question. Maybe "gain" in the program you were using is the word they use for volume?*

Unless you're doing something I don't understand, automating "the complete track" is done by inserting or drawing volume. It can be done a points, bars, or lines.

:rtfm: YMMV

There are too many ways and tools to enter and manipulate that control data to even begin to cover here.



*MOTU called sequences "chunks" which is similarly confusing for some people who REFUSE to use "chunks" when in fact, you have to have at least one "chunk" in ANY DP project to do anything. They simply avoid using more than one, thinking that is somehow a bad thing. It is, in fact, the one thing that distinguishes DP from most, if not ALL other DAWs. Multiple sequences in the same project is the most efficient way of scoring and creating similarly episodic and/or related sequences, but I digress. Some defend the practice of not using chunks as a strategy to protect each sequence (i.e.- if one file goes south, you still have your other files). That's debatable and contrary to how the program was designed. It doesn't hurt anything to work that way, it's just much less efficient.
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PoliticalBonobo
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

MIDI Life Crisis wrote:Standard MIDI control #7=volume. #1=modulation. #10=pan. #11=expression. #64=pedals. There are lots of them...

If you don't understand MIDI controllers you're missing a very large part of working on ANY DAW. But you haven't answered my question. Maybe "gain" in the program you were using is the word they use for volume?*

Unless you're doing something I don't understand, automating "the complete track" is done by inserting or drawing volume. It can be done a points, bars, or lines.

:rtfm: YMMV

There are too many ways and tools to enter and manipulate that control data to even begin to cover here.



*MOTU called sequences "chunks" which is similarly confusing for some people who REFUSE to use "chunks" when in fact, you have to have at least one "chunk" in ANY DP project to do anything. They simply avoid using more than one, thinking that is somehow a bad thing. It is, in fact, the one thing that distinguishes DP from most, if not ALL other DAWs. Multiple sequences in the same project is the most efficient way of scoring and creating similarly episodic and/or related sequences, but I digress. Some defend the practice of not using chunks as a strategy to protect each sequence (i.e.- if one file goes south, you still have your other files). That's debatable and contrary to how the program was designed. It doesn't hurt anything to work that way, it's just much less efficient.
I misinterpreted what you were saying. I am very familiar with MIDI controls (I thought you were saying "keyboard shortcut control key+7"). That being said, the reason I brought this up is because I saw another composer's video where he automated gain instead of volume. That sounded like a good idea to me because after you've written in volume automation, you can't adjust the fader to lower or boost overall volume any more (since it will always play back the automation levels). If you automated a gain plugin, then you have control over the fader levels. Similarly (and what I just came to realize), you could automate volume but control overall volume with some gain control on the track. I can see MIDI cc7 being used for this, too, assuming it's loud enough. The example I saw had some very dynamic evolving strings that swelled in and out, automated by a gain utility plugin.
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by frankf »

If this helps I use cc7 (which are reflected in mixer faders) to automate overall MIDI track volume and cc11 to control the changing levels of the MIDI instrument in the track
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by mikehalloran »

In Ableton Live, there's a plugin called Utility that has a simple gain adjustment knob that you can automate
That automates volume through an Aux track. I don't see it as gain automation.
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

There are a few ways to do what the last post by the o/p said.

As mentioned before, the Dynamics plug is far more elegant than bite gain if you wNt to automate. If the entire bite is too low in volume me, bite gain is definitely a good choice, but again, not for automation.

If only a section of the audio us lol w, separate that section (select the segment and hit CTL-Y (on a Mac). Then apply bite gain to that segment. There are a few other tricks depending on the content specifically but you have more options than you need already. Unfortunately automating bite gain isn't one of them.
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by bayswater »

PoliticalBonobo wrote:If you automated a gain plugin, then you have control over the fader levels. Similarly (and what I juwst came to realize), you could automate volume but control overall volume with some gain control on the track. I can see MIDI cc7 being used for this, too, assuming it's loud enough. The example I saw had some very dynamic evolving strings that swelled in and out, automated by a gain utility plugin.
If you want non linear gain then you can use something like a dynamics plugin. If you want linear gain then that's the same as volume. So just run the track through two faders in sequence. Call the first one gain and its volume automation is now gain automation. Call the second one volume.
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Re: Gain automation tool?

Post by PoliticalBonobo »

Thanks, everyone. Those are all good suggestions.
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