Are there MIDI "events" in DP?

[CQrity]

Hello,

Im coming from Studio One and therefore Im used to MIDI events. When I record something, then I create a MIDI event with MIDI data in it.

Cant get my head around that in DP. In Sequence view there are only the single notes. In Tracks view there are only those"phrasing blocks" which only help a little draging around MIDI data.
I cant expand or collapse those, just drag around highlighted notes.

Is there some kind of a trick involved or is the workflow just a different one? I dont get it. Every other DAW I used (Cubase, Reaper, S1)all work this way. DP obviously not. Any advide?

Thx!

[monkey man]

Well, in DP, as in the real world, any MIDI data is by definition a MIDI event, IMHO.

However, I suspect what you're after could be found in the MIDI Event List / Window or whatever it's called; it's simply an editable list of those real-world events I referred to.

The other option, if you're in need of graphic representation, is of course the (believe it or not) MIDI Edit window.

Who'd have thunk it, eh?

[CQrity]

I obviously dindt got my point across.
I didnt mean the MIDI as single notes.

When you record audio, you have afterwards a colored "block" containing the waveform. In other DAWs the same stays true for MIDI. You have a "block" with the MIDI notes in it. Not so in DP. Thats my point. Im use to that block, as I can drag around a "block" of MIDI events easily and therefore rearrange and change out differetn versions of that "block".

[stubbsonic]

If I understand you, in other DAWs they are called "MIDI Events" and in DP they are called "Regions".

However, in DP, the Region doesn't have much of a durable container. You make a selection and it is now what you seem to be calling an "event".

You can take small MIDI phrases and put them in a clippings window. You can drag and move around and manipulate any selection of MIDI you have made.

There are some "smart selection" options (which I hate and leave turned off).

You can option-drag copies of what is selected and perform other functions. But I don't know what you mean by expand and collapse. Is that related to seeing just the selection in its own container?

If you would like more "skin" around some MIDI you've made, you can make more MIDI tracks and record bits in different tracks to help you keep them separate. That's all I can think of.

[bayswater]

A MIDI Region (as in Logic) or Part (as in Cubase) is a frequently requested feature for DP. For now, we're stuck with selections or multiple tracks.

The use of the term Event for a group of MIDI events is confusing.

[James Steele]

I've heard this referred to as "objects" before, and no DP does not have this feature at the moment. Not a deal-breaker for me personally, but it would be nice to have the option for the people who like to compose by shuffling blocks of MIDI data around.

[stubbsonic]

At the risk of starting another grid-like war...

I really like that MIDI selection is more fluid.

I wonder how this concept would work if it was thought of more as a chunks to song situation.
For that matter, a person could use chunks and a song mode, but I think that editor would require some tweaks to work that way.

Perhaps a more fitting solution would be to have another type of edit window where little hidden tags could allow that type of work.

[CQrity]

Ah, thx for helping.

Didnt want to confuse.

Objects/Regions/Parts might be the better term then. Unfortunately Im super used to this kind of behavior. I'm not quite sure if I can adopt to that. Actually I'm quite confused of how one can work without that?!

Thx again guys!

[MIDI Life Crisis]

...I'm quite confused of how one can work without that?!

Yet feature films to Grammy nominated works are written without it. How do they do it? LOL...

It's simply a matter of doing something a different way. I refer precise control over every aspect of my work. Moving stuff around in big blocks is just not part of my workflow. There is song mode where you can move sequences around. That may be the closest to regions as DP gets and it does it well. It even let's you "flatten" the sequences into a single sequence if you want to and will automatically combine tracks with identical names (from different sequences or what MOTU calls "Chunks") so you can have the best of all worlds.

Check out SONG MODE in DP, it's probably what you're looking for. Once a sequence is in the SONG window you can double click to edit it in it's actual sequence.

That help at all?

[bayswater]

As with all of these debates, surely the point is that there are different ways to do things and having more options is good. Again, no one wants to remove the ability to address specific MIDI events, and other DAWs don't lack that ability. What they do is allow you to address a group of MIDI event, and not only in place of selection. In Cubase, for example, you can have a MIDI plugin address events at the Region level instead of the track level, if that's what you want. Isn't it all about letting people work the way they want?

And, yes, of course you can produce great music without this feature, or any other feature. In fact, I heard that the Beatles never even used DP, and they made some decent tracks.

[stubbsonic]

Totally fair point, but if you were to make a list of all the "Must-Have" features of other DAWs and forced MOTU to put them into DP because people were unable to adapt, you might end up with a pretty complex UI.

That said, I certainly don't like having to adapt my workflow. When I went over to Logic a long time ago, I was aghast that there was no snip command (cut data and remove time). I complained to some Logic user and they responded like "Why would you want that? You just drag all the downstream data earlier after you cut."

So I can sympathize.

[frankf]

DP has clippings, as has been mentioned, which hold any track data not just MIDI. One often overlooked feature is the ability to save selection bounds and recall them as needed to be copied,, moved etc. I can appreciate that some may prefer using blocks of data to create structure. If that is your preferred way of working, currently DP is not for you.

[monkey man]

The use of the term Event for a group of MIDI events is confusing.

Yup. That's what threw me, Stoivo.

I think the TO may provide the closest thing we have in our arsenal to the OP's need move blocks around. I use it when sorting out song structures after all, as I'm sure do many.

IMHO, the option of "container blocks" would be handy in the MIDI editor, not least because they'd be more intuitive to select and move than regions, and the possibility of note-selection sans associated controller data would be nullified. That'd be handy, surely.

[CQrity]

Thanks again for your help, there are lot of sugestions and I have to check them carefully, to make sure not to overlook something.

Yet feature films to Grammy nominated works are written without it. How do they do it? LOL... 

Im totaly aware of that. I dont claim DP a bad product, Im just realizing, that Im used to a completely different workflow. Thats not good nor bad but just what it is.
I now have to check if I can change my workflow to work with DP. Often it helps watching other poeple and their specific workflow.

Does anybody have a good pool for videos of that kind?

I warched the videos from groove3 some time ago and they were helpfull but didnt really fit this topic.
Especially working with MIDI would be of great interest.

[bayswater]

[I think the TO may provide the closest thing we have in our arsenal to the OP's need move blocks around. I use it when sorting out song structures after all, as I'm sure do many.

The TO is what I had in mind too, although maybe in a different way. A more "DP" way to do this might be to allow the use of the Edge Tool to customize the parsing that currently happens with MIDI. Maybe that would minimize the changes for those who like it the way it is.