Acoustic guit w built-in preamp - DI or line in?

[PostPCMan]

I have a RainSong acoustic with a built-in Fishman preamp. I've tried plugging it directly into the front panel mic/inst inputs on my 828 mk3, but it sounds lousy, even though the levels are fine. Would I be better off going in to those inputs with a DI box, or going from the guitar into a line level input on the back of the 828? I have a radial DI that I use live, going into the board via a mic input.

I know that the sound quality won't match that of a real mic, but for the purposes of the tracks I'm working on now, I'm hoping that I can get it "good enough".

Thanks

[Guitar Gaz]

It should go in to a line input meant for a guitar - I have a Line 6 UX2 with separate inputs for guitar/instrument and microphones. However you will need an amp sim in DP or something to boost the signal as it will be not that loud.

[daniel.sneed]

Good active DI would be my first choice (i.e. J48).

BTW, many acoustic guitars don't have strings grounded. In some circumstances, hum may develop.

I solved the case on my J200custom, with a wire from jack ground to a metallic saddle:
http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/To ... _Mate.html

[Guitar Gaz]

The basic sound of the piezo pickup will not be that great - you need a fair bit of eq and maybe some other plugins to make it sound like a natural acoustic guitar - if you have good level as you say you have, then you are going into the right inputs. I have never heard of using DI boxes as such, you shouldn't need them. Acoustic piezo sounds are usually crap on their own (that quacky sound) - I would persevere and eq and use various plugins. Once you have a reasonable sound you can save the setup (or as a clipping) and then use that as standard. I have started using the iRig Acoustic mic - a piezo will never sound great as a direct signal as they are more designed for feeding into an amp. But if you just want a usable sound you can get one with a piezo but it needs a bit of work.

[mikehalloran]

levels are fine

Since you have a built in preamp, unlikely that a DI will make it sound better as long as you use the 1/4" in on the combination jack.

If using an adapter to go into the XLR, then yes, a DI might help—active or passive is not important as long as the transformer is decent quality (cheapo in-line impedance converters are normally horrible). I've been using the Whirlwind IMP 2 for decades and they still sound good even though they no longer have a Jensen transformer.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Whirlwind/I ... ect-Box.gc

Probably won't make it sound good, though. Plugins and eq help but a microphone is usually better.

[Guitar Gaz]

Probably won't make it sound good, though. Plugins and eq help but a microphone is usually better.

Having tested this a lot I agree - the iRig Acoustic is good and easier than a normal mic, a condenser mic is better. But you should get usable results with the preamp plus eq, a bit of reverb/room fx - and in a track it should be fine. You can always do better of course - should you get a better mic, or a guitar with a better pre-amp, internal mic, and so on? It depends what end result you are after - but preamp and eq + reverb can be fine and is often easier than mic'ing up.

[PostPCMan]

Thanks for the advice. Unfortunately, my 828 chose this very moment to bite the dust. It goes back to MOTU today, and I should get a replacement in a couple of weeks. When I do, I'll try the various ideas and report back.

Gaz, do you plug the iRig mic into a 828 through an adapter? Or are you using it, as seems to be intended, to record on a phone or tablet?

BTW, the guitar's pickup / preamp system is pretty good. When playing live, I plug it in to a mic input on the board via a Radial J48 active direct box, and the sound is fine - not the quality that I would accept for recording if I was featuring the acoustic guitar, but I think good enough for the project at hand. I think my mistake was going straight from the preamp into a front panel mic/inst input. Probably a bad impedance mismatch. If I don't get a usable result I guess I'll need to mic for real.

[mikehalloran]

... do you plug the iRig mic into a 828 through an adapter? Or are you using it, as seems to be intended, to record on a phone or tablet?

Good question. I'd like to know, too.

It will depend on the extra sleeve on the jack. If it is used to power the mic, then it won't work through an adapter into an 828. If the mic is not powered, then it should work.

[Guitar Gaz]

Gaz, do you plug the iRig mic into a 828 through an adapter? Or are you using it, as seems to be intended, to record on a phone or tablet?

It's a bit of a faff if you have an android phone like I do - it has to go through the phone (Amplitube Free) and then line out of the iRig Acoustic into the sound card - I don't record on the phone. With an iPhone the software is better. But once sorted it works well. No way of doing it without the phone which is sad but it works.

[Phil O]

...my 828 chose this very moment to bite the dust. It goes back to MOTU today, and I should get a replacement in a couple of weeks.

Is that an original 828 by any chance? Are they still supporting them?

[PostPCMan]

...my 828 chose this very moment to bite the dust. It goes back to MOTU today, and I should get a replacement in a couple of weeks.

Is that an original 828 by any chance? Are they still supporting them?

828 mk3 firewire, so one generation before the hybrid. MOTU policy is free replacement for 2 years, $99 replacement after that (mine is much older) which is, I think, quite fair. I've heard that they no longer offer replacements for the original 828, not sure about mk2, but I'm definitely not authoritative on this. I'm just grateful that mine is still supported for replacement.

[mikehalloran]

I've heard that they no longer offer replacements for the original 828, not sure about mk2

Many reports on these boards that the mkII is no longer eligible for the refurb exchange program. Owning one that is still going strong (knock on wood!), I've been paying attention to that.

Good news for 828mk3 FW owners.

[mhschmieder]

Radial's excellent gold-coloured PZ-DI -- which I bought when it was released a year or so ago -- is especially made for this purpose. I upgraded from an earlier model, in case I ever have to record an instrument with a piezo pickup.

It allows for fine-adjustment as well, and of course you can use whichever of the three impedance settings you choose to regardless of what you're plugging in (piezo, passive, active).

Generally, you'll get a cleaner and tighter signal with better articulation, if you have correct impedance matching at the source, than if you try to EQ to make up for a mismatch later in the audio chain.

[mikehalloran]

The OP has a built in preamp. Impedance matching with a piezo isn't an issue here.

[mhschmieder]

Oops, sorry, due to all the talk about DI's in others' replies, I thought the OP was debating going line out or skipping the built-in pre-amp and using a DI.