Live tracking with band. Drum bleed into Vocals

[wonder]

I do a lot of recording live bands in studio straight to film.

Obviously, in a perfect world, I'd be able to isolate the instruments in my booths and using baffling and such.

Not possible with this setup.

The band literally sets up like a show (Drummer right behind lead vocalist).

I've been using sm7, sm57, and other mics on lead vocals but the drum bleed is basically unusable on lead vox and we have to either recut or live with it. No bueno.

Was wondering, is there a mic (dynamic or otherwise) that has better rejection than other mics?

I know I'm playing with fire here ... but wondering if you guys have had any luck here.

[Grigri]

Hello.
I have good result with the audix om7 on a live show, There is little (almost none) drum bleed in this mic but the singer have to sing really close into the mic (unlike a sm58)
All the best for your recordings!
David

[mikehalloran]

Go to a super cardioid or hypercardioid mic. Hands download my favorite dynamic mic for vocals is the AKG D5. Besides being super cardioid, the vari-motion diaphragm is much clearer than an SM-57 or 58. Its 600 Ohm output also matches the 1300—2400 Ohm input impedance of modern mic pres—unlike the 150 Ohm SM 7, 57 and 58 which perform best into a 600 Ohm input load (rule of thumb is 3–5x for ideal loading).

http://www.akg.com/pro/p/d5group

$99 street price, can be found as low as $79 when on sale at GC/MF. I now own eight.

The D7 is the same mic with a humbucking coil. This reduces bass response which is why I don't care for it.

Interestingly, the big difference between Shure's original Beta 57/58 and the current Beta 57a/58a is that Shure removed the humbucking coil—few need it and it improved bass response. The SM-57/58 never had one.

[wonder]

Go to a super cardioid or hypercardioid mic. Hands download my favorite dynamic mic for vocals is the AKG D5. Besides being super cardioid, the vari-motion diaphragm is much clearer than an SM-57 or 58. Its 600 Ohm output also matches the 1300—2400 Ohm input impedance of modern mic pres—unlike the 150 Ohm SM 7, 57 and 58 which perform best into a 600 Ohm input load (rule of thumb is 3–5x for ideal loading).

http://www.akg.com/pro/p/d5group

$99 street price, can be found as low as $79 when on sale at GC/MF. I now own eight.

The D7 is the same mic with a humbucking coil. This reduces bass response which is why I don't care for it.

Interestingly, the big difference between Shure's original Beta 57/58 and the current Beta 57a/58a is that Shure removed the humbucking coil—few need it and it improved bass response. The SM-57/58 never had one.

Great thoughts here. Thanks so much.

I used a GLS 57clone because we were in a pinch.
There's a bad buzz on the line and we have to recut vocals. (No big deal).

I had the sm7 give me a noticeable buzz too. Humbucking coil?

At any rate, I'm gonna check out that mic.

[mikehalloran]

Hum bucking coils are used to cancel 50/60 cycle hum. Superior shielding, otoh, helps with buzzing etc. so a mic upgrade may just be the ticket.

AKG has a new humbucking D5 LX priced between the D5 and D7 marketed as "designed for noisy environments".
http://www.akg.com/pro/p/d5lx

If noise is a major issue, consider getting a star-quad cable. If you're good with a soldering iron, you can get the wire by the foot from Markertek or Sweetwater who both carry the Canare (Belden and Mogami are other manufacturers).

Unlike so called 'premium' cable with esoteric, mystic qualities (like "oxygen free!") star-quad uses two pair of wires that you terminate according to the instructions. Depending on the frequency, additional noise reduction ranges between -10–30dB compared to normal 2-wire. The difference is only noticeable in noisy environments, of course. The wire is deceptively thin but extremely flexible.

The best deal in having them made is Markertek. You can select the length, connectors and any of 8 colors. The prices are comparable to brand name off the shelf 2-wire cables. A 6' is $17, 10' is $19 and so on (these are the lengths I ordered recently).

I've seen ready made star-quad mic cables on Amazon for less than outrageous prices.

I'd still upgrade the mic first.

[Gravity Jim]

Record the whole band, just as you are.

Then overdub a fresh vocal track.

Ta-dah.

[wonder]

Record the whole band, just as you are.

Then overdub a fresh vocal track.

Ta-dah.

As easy as that sounds ... not possible. We're filming live video and don't want as real of a performance as possible.

[wonder]

Hum bucking coils are used to cancel 50/60 cycle hum. Superior shielding, otoh, helps with buzzing etc. so a mic upgrade may just be the ticket.

AKG has a new humbucking D5 LX priced between the D5 and D7 marketed as "designed for noisy environments".
http://www.akg.com/pro/p/d5lx

If noise is a major issue, consider getting a star-quad cable. If you're good with a soldering iron, you can get the wire by the foot from Markertek or Sweetwater who both carry the Canare (Belden and Mogami are other manufacturers).

Unlike so called 'premium' cable with esoteric, mystic qualities (like "oxygen free!") star-quad uses two pair of wires that you terminate according to the instructions. Depending on the frequency, additional noise reduction ranges between -10–30dB compared to normal 2-wire. The difference is only noticeable in noisy environments, of course. The wire is deceptively thin but extremely flexible.

The best deal in having them made is Markertek. You can select the length, connectors and any of 8 colors. The prices are comparable to brand name off the shelf 2-wire cables. A 6' is $17, 10' is $19 and so on (these are the lengths I ordered recently).

I've seen ready made star-quad mic cables on Amazon for less than outrageous prices.

I'd still upgrade the mic first.

StarQuad may be the way to go.

Problem is, we're running video lighting as well ... which i know lends itself to major issues.

I recently yanked all the cabled from my racks and replugged them ... so maybe i need to see if something's awry.

[kassonica]

Beta 57's reject extremely well, also sound pretty decent.

[EMRR]

It seems counterintuitive, but sometimes an omni wins this case. Omni bleed can sound good and useful compared to many directional mics, and you can use it as the basis of the mix, turning other close mics down more rather than depending on them. Situation specific, of course.

If I think a band tracking with guide vocals near drums might insist on keeping those guides, I'm much better off with an omni in my own room.

[daniel.sneed]

I've been thru this in many ways:
- guitar pick noise in vocal track
- drum bleed in vocal track
- saxophone in vocal track
- and so on...

When overdub is not an option, the real concern arises when you need to compress vocal track, which in my case is always.

Editing won't solve the case, for it brings the bleeding sounds in and out, which is very disturbing.

I generally end with much vocal automation on vocal track. Say -6dB to -8dB between vocal parts. Sometimes between words.
Yes, tedious, but IMOE, very effective. Done it for years, now.