Will I benefit from choosing a newer audio interface?

[Tomas E]

Focusrite has just released generation 2 of the Scarlett series. I'm thinking of either MOTU 8Pre or Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 Gen2. Generally speaking, will I benefit from choosing a newer audio interface? For how long will the 8Pre be supported? It has been on the market for a couple of years now which makes me hesitate.

Does anyone know the quality of the knobs and buttons of the two units? There are indications to suggest that previous versions of the Scarlett series have had some issues with these things.

[mhschmieder]

It's important to know your criteria. Do you need really good, low-noise, transparent mic pre's? If so, avoid Focusrite.

RME Fireface UFX and related interfaces are the best buys right now for those who can afford it (and have by far the best mic pre's of any integrated interface), but you're probably in the next price tier down, at which point I can unhesitatingly recommend MOTU's latest interfaces.

I used Focusrite as a placeholder for a few years, for expansion to an extra eight channels via ADAT. The mic pre's were some of the worst I've ever experienced outside of Behringer, but weren't at all bad FOR THE PRICE. In other words, Focusrite IS a company that delivers good VALUE. Great build quality, rock solid drivers, excellent ADAT implementation for expansion.

What I liked about that Focusrite unit was that the mic pre's had true bypass if you simply needed the form factor of ¼" jacks to get to the ADAT expansion. Only Behringer offers that same functionality, and I owned their unit for all of three days due to how it degraded the signal. So in this regard, Focusrite does a fairly good job of through signal. Not sure if the latest Scarlet supports that, or if you need it. Having this functionality also makes ghost tracking much easier (split signal).

As for age, don't worry about it. Two years isn't very long for an audio interface, as it is with some other types of gear. The MOTU 24 i/o (I think that's the name) was in production and considered a top-of-line expansion unit, for close to two decades, if not longer.

As a registered MOTU customer, I can vouch for their LONG support of legacy hardware products. If you log into your account, you'll still see driver updates and upgrade vouchers for every piece of hardware you ever bought from them.

[mhschmieder]

Oh, I see the raw technical specs HAVE been bumped up on the second gen Scarlett interfaces, so maybe they're worth a fresh look.

2.7ms RTL latency figure under USB 2, running at 96 kHz with a 32 sample buffer.

One person is reporting cracking and reliability issues when run above 48 khz, but that could just be their machine. Several have reported that the instrument input has solved the clipping issues and noise floor problems of the previous generation of interfaces.

I haven't seen anything yet about whether the mic pre's are upgraded from before. It does appear that the circuit board is an entirely new design overall vs. a minor upgrade, and that the drivers are brand-new. There's confusion over whether it is USB3-native or USB3-compatible.

[Tomas E]

It's important to know your criteria. Do you need really good, low-noise, transparent mic pre's? If so, avoid Focusrite.

Lots of info, thanks! I'll split the topic into smaller pieces.

For starters, let's say my reference for mic pre's is my Mackie 1402-VLZ Pro mixer. I would probably be dissatisfied if the sound gets worse. Up until now I've been sending the tracks for recording via ALT OUTPUTS to the computer (via Audiofire2). I've been quite happy with that sound quality. (Audiofire2 is no longer supported which is why I can't use it anymore ). Thus, I'm really not depending on mic preamps at all in the audio interface and I could manage with something more simple. But what if my dear Mackie stops working. Then I would have to buy another, more expensive audio interface in order to have enough inputs. And as said, in that case my Mackie is my reference.

[bayswater]

If your current interface is an 8 pre and its working, I'd be doubtful about any benefits. I got a Scarlett 18i8 because my 828-3 is becoming unusable -- needs a power supply refit. I don't need all the I/O on a new 828 so I got the Scarlett at about half the cost of the 828. I needed it quickly and one of the members here helped me get hold of it in a matter of 30 minutes. If I had the time, I probably would have spent more time looking at alternatives, but the Focusrite has done the job.

Despite the comments above, I find the Mic pres OK -- more transparent than those on my 828-3 or my 2408-2, both of which seem to me to have more noticeable mid high distortion. I have the FMR pre/comp pair that I like so it's not a big issue for me one way or another. The knobs are OK, usable but small and a bit fiddly. It has an larger output level knob, but I still use my TC Level Pilot. The Scarlett knob seems to favour the right channel at very low output levels. It seems to give more digital glitch than my 828-3 did, but the change to it was coincident with DP 9 so that could be the issue. It doesn't glitch with Logic, DSP-Q Standalone VIs, or MixBus (or iTunes, Quicktime) etc.

The jacks are very tight. Good I suppose if you use it in different settings, but they are so tight, I had an adaptor break apart when I pulled it out of the headphone jack, The unit does not come apart, so it was an adventure getting the broken pieces out. I have to be careful about plugging and unplugging cables.

I read about the new Focusrite units. It wasn't clear to me whether there is any significant upgrade to the converters, while it looks like MOTU has upgraded converters since I got the Scarlett. Perhaps the update could have as much to do with supply chain and manufacturing costs as overall quality. As for improved latency, that may or may not be of practical importance. I can track with the Scarlett in DP at 16 or 32 sample buffers if needed, even on my ancient iMac. With the upcoming efficiency improvement in DP, you'd have to be doing some pretty high power tracking for this to be an issue.

[mikehalloran]

Ha! My portable rig is my 1402-vlz Pro as the front end into my Zoom R24. The R24 is a great portable multitrack but the Mackie pres are better. Everything fits into a canvass brief case.

When part of your Mackie stops working, take it apart, burnish all the ribbon connectors by disconnecting and reconnecting three times with a spritz of DeOxIt on them when putting them back together.

I make a bit of side money buying Mackie mixers "for parts or not working", clean them up this way, replace any missing knobs and resell them on eBay or Craigslist. Someday, I suppose I'll find one with bad components or a cracked motherboard but it hasn't happened yet. They're built like little tanks.

I once bought a large box of Behringer Xenix mixers for $50, hoping to make a profit by getting two working properly. Yea, I got them working but they were noisy crap—every single one. I sold them for $10 each to people looking for knobs. Junk!

[Tomas E]

If your current interface is an 8 pre and its working, I'd be doubtful about any benefits.

The Scarlett knob seems to favour the right channel at very low output levels.

The jacks are very tight. ...but they are so tight, I had an adaptor break apart when I pulled it out of the headphone jack, The unit does not come apart, so it was an adventure getting the broken pieces out. I have to be careful about plugging and unplugging cables.

I read about the new Focusrite units. It wasn't clear to me whether there is any significant upgrade to the converters, while it looks like MOTU has upgraded converters since I got the Scarlett. Perhaps the update could have as much to do with supply chain and manufacturing costs as overall quality. As for improved latency, that may or may not be of practical importance. I can track with the Scarlett in DP at 16 or 32 sample buffers if needed, even on my ancient iMac. With the upcoming efficiency improvement in DP, you'd have to be doing some pretty high power tracking for this to be an issue.

This is really good to know. I don't like tight jacks and knobs that don't respond properly.

[Tomas E]

Ha! My portable rig is my 1402-vlz Pro as the front end into my Zoom R24. The R24 is a great portable multitrack but the Mackie pres are better. Everything fits into a canvass brief case.

When part of your Mackie stops working, take it apart, burnish all the ribbon connectors by disconnecting and reconnecting three times with a spritz of DeOxIt on them when putting them back together.

I make a bit of side money buying Mackie mixers "for parts or not working", clean them up this way, replace any missing knobs and resell them on eBay or Craigslist. Someday, I suppose I'll find one with bad components or a cracked motherboard but it hasn't happened yet. They're built like little tanks.

Great!

[mhschmieder]

Just goes to show we all have different tastes. I Consider Mackie mic pre's to be the noisiest and most coloured on the market (of the non-buget brands). I got rid of mine 15(?) years ago and a few years later bought a Yamaha mixer, which I use for ghost tracking as well as occasional large gigs. Much more transparent, quieter, and a larger usable gain and trim range.

Certainly if the OP's main issue is something working or not working, compatible or incompatible, it is best to take the practical approach first rather than throw out the baby with the bathwater. So Michael's advice is spot-on for getting at the heart of the issue rather than spending money on a perceived upgrade and possibly still not having addressed what's behind the issues.

I will post separately about a great deal that just came on-line today and will disappear fast.

[mhschmieder]

Warren Dent of Zen Pro Audio in South Carolina has a demo/floor/B-stock model at super-low price for the next day or so, of Audient's latest eight-channel ADAT-based audio interface expansion unit:

http://www.zenproaudio.com/audient-asp800-open-box

I am extremely pleased with my recent Audient purchase (slightly different from the model above, but more or less the same specs). Extremely good mic pre's, just as on my RME Fireface UFX, excellent ADAT implementation, and very flexible routing with direct control (dedicated knobs and buttons).

My only complaint is that it didn't come with a user manual, and I haven't yet figured out how to properly set word clock master. There's probably san on-line manual. It only came with a one-page setup sheet for plugging it in, safety hazards, etc.

The Audient is 10x as good as the Focusrite, but usually at 2x to 3x the cost. Due to this particular unit being non-pristine, it's closer to 1.5x to 2x the cost.

This is more of an expansion unit than a main unit though, unless you have an ADAT PCIe card.

[Tomas E]

I got rid of mine 15(?) years ago and a few years later bought a Yamaha mixer, which I use for ghost tracking as well as occasional large gigs. Much more transparent, quieter, and a larger usable gain and trim range.

Is your Yamaha mixer in the same price range as the Mackie?

Could you please explain ghost tracking? The only things that come up on Google has to with devices for tracking ghosts.
Muhahaa!

[mhschmieder]

Yamaha is cheaper than Mackie. They use their analog mixers as loss leaders, from what I remember. A way of building brand loyalty. I bought mine used and may have paid $200 for the 16-channel mixer (MG-series) whereas I paid $1000 or so the the Mackie 24-channel VLZ that I had before, and that was a used price.

I became acquainted with the mid-2000's Yamaha MG-series while in a band where the bandleader had bought one and had no experience with mixers so needed help. I trained him, and kept wondering what the catch was, as this thing was so cheap and yet so much better than mine. Also, I have never had a channel go bad in a Yamaha mixer, unlike Alesis, Behringer, and Mackie.

Allen Heath is a step up from either, but usually more expensive, and not entirely consistent across the product range in terms of features, user workflow, quality, etc. I have developed a preference for the Yamaha approach to muting, as it's less prone to error or accidents, and of course that means less chance of embarrassment, damaged equipment, or damaged hearing.

Not necessarily a right or wrong; just like driving on the left vs. driving on the right. We all find what is most comfortable for our own workflow, and the most intuitive. It's been a really long time since I've run into anyone who prefers Mackie to Yamaha, so I guess it's just a matter of taste.

Ghost tracking is where you do throwaway tracks of players while tracking drums (usually), as one example. You split the signal and give everyone a headphone mix. Mixers are a great away to make this possible, at low expense.

[Tomas E]

How should I interpret this data? It seems to me as if the Mackie outclasses the other ones. Or is the digital domain less sensitive when it comes to signal to noise ratio?

1. The XDR preamps on the Mackie 1402-VLZ Pro 130 dB dynamic range.
2. MOTU 8Pre 112 dB dynamic range.
3. MOTU Ultralite AVB 117 dB dynamic range.
4. Apogee Quartet 123 dB dynamic range.
5. RME Fireface UFX 118 dB dynamic range.

[mikehalloran]

Beware of specs. While they may not lie, they cannot tell the whole truth. This is especially true in the world of analog where your mic, cable, preamp and interface— and how you set them up in relation to each other —each contribute to the overall sound.

Use your ears. Don't Rush out to buy brand Y just because someone else tells you he doesn't like brand M.

If you use the preamp outs only (as I do) that any switching advantages of the mixer don't mean a thing. I'm happy with the six in my 1402vlz Pro but they aren't the only ones I own or use.

Btw, remarks about disliking something that was last examined 15 years ago should be taken with a mound of salt. It's the same as my comparing the current Yamaha products to the horrible mixer that my band used on tour in the early '90s. The vlz-Pro was the 3rd generation of six preamps form Mackie — the present being the Onyx.

If you do feel you need something else, then go out, listen, bring headphones.

[waxman]

Unless you get to the level of the ISA pre's the Focusrite pres are noisy.