The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.

Moderator: James Steele

Forum rules
Here's where to talk about preamps, cables, microphones, monitors, etc.
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Gravity Jim »

I hesitate to even post this, as I'm certain at least one of you will tell me why this VI sucks and that I should just buy V3 and 32Lives, etc., etc.

However, this instrument was featured in today's Don't Crack newsletter, and I found the tutorial persuasive enough that I bought it. Like B4II, it's sample based with some synthesis on top, but to my ear, this pretty well walks any B3 emulator I've heard. Even the Leslie sim is pretty darn good enough.

Also, Metric Halo's Bus Driver is on sale for $4.99, and after a quantity discount of $5.17 I didn't expect, I ended up getting it for less than free.

Check it out.

http://store.dontcrack.com/product_info ... ts_id=2333
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15132
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by mikehalloran »

I see that it requires the UVI player and also states that if can be made to work in an older version by downloading a different set of .ufs files. I should think this means that, one way or another, it can be made to work in MachFive 3.

I don't need another B-3 now but this looks quite well thought out and would have saved me some $$$ had I known about it a year ago. I'm impressed by the demo. There are more on the mfr's web site.
https://www.acousticsamples.net/B5
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Prime Mover
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Prime Mover »

Wow wow wow. FINALLY someone who's a contender for a Hammond synth.

My only concern is that being sample-based, how much memory this takes up per instance. I'm running into real memory problems within large MainStage projects. I'm pretty sure B4ii isn't sample-based because I can load in a huge number of instances without it ever even registering in the memory usage display. A single instance of Kontakt Virtual Organs is ridiculously huge.

I also REALLY don't like VB3 for a number of reasons, either. wish I could get my money back. The amp sim is crap, and the global parameters can accidentally make you change your patch in other projects without even knowing. I take extreme issue with how VB3 was designed, wish I could get my money back.

Anyway, please let us know on how this stacks up against B4ii both in sound, operation, and RAM use.
— Eric Barker
Eel House

"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
User avatar
mikehalloran
Posts: 15132
Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:08 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Sillie Con Valley

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by mikehalloran »

Prime Mover wrote:Wow wow wow. FINALLY someone who's a contender for a Hammond synth.
. . .
I also REALLY don't like VB3 for a number of reasons, either. wish I could get my money back. The amp sim is crap, and the global parameters can accidentally make you change your patch in other projects without even knowing. I take extreme issue with how VB3 was designed, wish I could get my money back.
I agree. Will the promised 64bit version very show up in our lifetimes? Will it work if it does? I bought 32Lives to run VB3—it had other benefits but VB3 is a disappointment. I'm using Retro Organs Suite more than anything else nowadays.
Anyway, please let us know on how this stacks up against B4ii both in sound, operation, and RAM use.
Yes!
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Gravity Jim »

Will do. Don't Crack can't do an instant delivery on this product, and warns you as much on the order page, so it takes about 48 hours to get the download code... should be along soon.

The manual for B4II says that it's a software model, but one of the guys at NI told me it wasn't, and that the big difference between it and Vintage Organs was they sampled different Hammonds. Grain of salt. I tried and didn't like V3, and that was before the 32-64 bit hassle. B4II remained my favorite until i lost the ability to install it....

... and if B-5 sounds as good as the demos, I'm expecting it to blow B4II well away. I already have UVI Player installed, so I'm good to go.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by mhschmieder »

Bought mine this past weekend, on loyalty discount from Audio Deluxe (I probably get the same loyalty from Don't Crack, but I find their site and purchasing process slightly less streamlined).

I'm not using organ on my jazz album so haven't had a reason to try it out yet (too busy for random trials at the moment). I am starting to interleave a shelved project or two from last summer though, to give myself perspective on the current album via entirely different music.

I have two organ tracks on one of those unfinished albums, and both are good tests as one is gospel and the other is jazz -- two areas where B3 emulations almost always fall down (it's easier to get the Jon Lord sound).
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
guitardood
Posts: 144
Joined: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by guitardood »

I've been using VB3 with 32 Lives. Even with it's flaws, it's been the best. Finally a contender that looks to compete. I just watched the video and B-5 looks awesome. I've got a few other instruments from Acoustic Samples and they have been phenomenal.

Can't wait to get my hands on this to try it.
________________________________________________________________________
Best,
Guitardood

Chuck Fletcher on Reverb Nation
Chuck Fletcher on Facebook


"Life is like a box of chocolates. You know, eventually you're going to get the one filled with alien-like nasty tasting goo and have to spit it out and say YUCK".
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by mhschmieder »

Oh BTW this seems to be an update of their earlier organ product, but I'm pretty sure it's an entirely new sample set and programming.

For those looking into the 32-bit version though, it's worth checking to make sure it isn't the old version being repackaged as the new product for compatibility purposes, as that might not be a good buy.

I'm very impressed by the core sound so far -- very organic, and the tone wheels seem to interact in a realistic way (one of the areas where most emulations and samples fall down).

Hammond themselves just announced the XK-5, which is a significant jump for them from VASE III and also includes the best keyboard yet, with lightning fast contact points.

So, it's kind of interesting that the number "5" was chosen by Acoustic Samples. It also seems to insinuate that it's the follow-oin (in spirit) of Native Instruments B4 II.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Gravity Jim »

I like it a lot. Just got to spend some time playing it solo and then replacing Vintage Organs in some existing tracks.

As mhschmieder says above, the tone wheels interact in a much more realistic fashion than anything I've played, and these are definitely all new samples, taken in amazing detail. Even better is the total control over what's happening with percussion, key clicks, etc. Ditto the Leslie sim.

It sounds great. I had Retro Organs from the same company and was fairly unimpressed, but this is next level, to my ears.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by mhschmieder »

FYI Arturia's modeled Hammond B3 finally came out today, as part of the affordable upgrade to the V Collection which also includes other new emulations. Audio Deluxe offers the upgrades.

Not sure if I'll have time to take care of this until next week, due to work. As with the Continental, the Hammond is a rebranding of a well-known free/pay-what-you-want emulation.

As I haven't had time to read the full description yet, that's as much as I can safely say at this point.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
Prime Mover
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Prime Mover »

Gravity Jim wrote:The manual for B4II says that it's a software model, but one of the guys at NI told me it wasn't, and that the big difference between it and Vintage Organs was they sampled different Hammonds. Grain of salt.
One possibility is that because of 32Lives, it's actually running in a different thread from MainStage, and so MainStage isn't reporting its RAM usage. I didn't think about that until today.

But never-the-less, it's hard to get my head around B4II being sampled, because if so, they must have sampled the key clicks individually, as you can change their volume. Also they allow for much greater amount of change of the Percussion volume. Vintage Organs is just all over the place, in the "B3" instrument, the percussion is barely audible, but in the "C3" it's more obvious.

Honestly, if it turns out that B4II is sampled, it just makes me that much more upset about Virtual Organs. It means that VO COULD have been exactly like B4II, but they just dumbed it down drastically. Worthless piece of trash. Huge black mark on NIs usually good record.
— Eric Barker
Eel House

"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
BobK
Posts: 1529
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Oakland, CA
Contact:

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by BobK »

After hearing the demos and reading reviews from trusted sources, I caved and bought B-5.

I don't really need a B-3 VI (I'm mainly a pianist), but I like having one around. I liked B4 back in the day and was disappointed when NI dropped it.

I also have the Acousticsamples Wurly, and I think they're both really well done.

Didn't like Arturia's B-3V (or Stage-73 for that matter).

My $0.02 worth.
Bob

M1 Max Mac Studio - 64 GB RAM - macOS 14.1.2
MacBook Pro (15-inch, Mid 2012) - 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7 - 16 GB RAM - macOS 10.15.7
DP 11.23
Metric Halo ULN-8 mk4
User avatar
mhschmieder
Posts: 11282
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 10:01 pm
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Annandale VA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by mhschmieder »

A lot of people have been praising Acoustic Samples' Wurlitzer of late. I had never given it any thought, but now I will. I have been using Soniccouture's, and previously used Scarbee's. Occasionally use the modeled one from Arturia when I want something in the Sound Design category.
iMac 27" 2017 Quad-Core Intel i5 (3.8 GHz, 64 GB), OSX 13.6.1, MOTU DP 11.31, iZotope RX 10
RME Babyface Pro FS, Radial JDV Mk5, Hammond XK-4, Moog Voyager

Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35
Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, Johhny Marr Jaguar, 57 LP, Danelectro 12
Eastman T486RB, T64/V, Ibanez PM2, D'angelico Deluxe SS Bari, EXL1
Guild Bari, 1512 12-string, M20, Martin OM28VTS, Larivee 0040MH
User avatar
Gravity Jim
Posts: 2005
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2008 2:55 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Gravity Jim »

Follow-up: I've been using B5 for a while now, and it is a killer. My favorite Hammond ever. It sits well in a mix, produces that low-end thump and whoosh, sound great solo or in a band context, has the best Leslie simulation (not factoring in standalone Leslie-only software)... this thing is pretty damn good!
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
User avatar
Prime Mover
Posts: 2439
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:19 am
Primary DAW OS: MacOS
Location: Fairbanks, Alaska

Re: The Elusive "Best" Hammond B3 VI

Post by Prime Mover »

UPDATE: I went through and rigorously tested B4ii for RAM usage. I can't find a damned thing. Honestly, I just don't believe it's sample based. It just doesn't act like it. No sample loading time, no RAM use. If it is sample based, it's like 50ms samples (which would actually make sense), with A LOT of modeling on top. Maybe they sampled one cog of each drawbar. I mean, that sound IS coming from somewhere, at that size, sample vs wavetable doesn't really matter.

In any case, I'd love to get my gritty paws on B5 if it's super RAM friendly. I'm at a point where every MB matters.
— Eric Barker
Eel House

"All's fair in love, war, and the recording studio"
MacPro 1,1 2Ghz 7GB RAM OS 10.6.8 | MacBook Pro 13" i5 1.8Ghz 16GB RAM OS 10.8.2
DP7/8 | Komplete 7 | B4II | Korg Legacy Analog | Waves v9 (various) | Valhalla Room | EWQLSO Gold
MOTU 828mkII | MOTU 8pre | Presonus BlueTube | FMR RNC
Themes: Round is Right and Alloy
Post Reply