The Raven MTi2 Thread

[waxman]

There are not any DP guys at Slate. Mostly PT and Ableton. Steve uses Cubase. It may be a struggle to get them to fix Raven for DP.

ou have to be fair here, the tech guy I talked to about the Fine Fader issue, who also happens to be the guy answering questions in the forums is an ex DP user with good memories very likely to be 100% back in DP when the update makes it the CPU king! [/quote]

Your right Michael the forum guy is JameyZ. He is cool. He did say he was a DP user in college. Now he is PT. He also said everyone at Slate is PT, Ableton and Steven Slate is Cubase. So I guess I should be grateful to have at least one advocate at Slate Digital.

The bottom line is WILL Slate fix the ergonomics on the Raven DP version or is this it? I asked JameyZ that question... still waiting for an answer. Either way I am better off with the Raven then without. I'm not bashing the Raven or Slate Digital. Love em both.

Thanks Michael for the FINE FADERS tip. I didn't even consider FF would work with the DP mixer also.

Yes DP is elegant and beautiful and the Raven is a 3D picture of classic analog hardware like UAD. JameyZ was asking about the skin I was using which is Carbon Fiber. He knows DP looks amazing.

By the way I tell my kids "fair is a place to take your pig."

I ain't drinking the Kool aid though.

I just want this thing to work right. If Slate wants it to work right it will happen. Peace...

[Gravity Jim]

I decided to slow my roll a bit. I wrote my ads but didn't place them... I just de-commissioned the Raven. If any time in the next few weeks I think, "gee, I sure wish I had the Raven for this," I'll plug it back in. If not, eBay it is.

[Michael Canavan]

Your right Michael the forum guy is JameyZ. He is cool. He did say he was a DP user in college. Now he is PT. He also said everyone at Slate is PT, Ableton and Steven Slate is Cubase. So I guess I should be grateful to have at least one advocate at Slate Digital.

The bottom line is WILL Slate fix the ergonomics on the Raven DP version or is this it? I asked JameyZ that question... still waiting for an answer. Either way I am better off with the Raven then without. I'm not bashing the Raven or Slate Digital. Love em both.

Mostly my guess is it will be due to the amount of sales Slate has of the DP Raven software. Kind of a Catch 22 if people like Gravity Jim aren't happy with the current state. It's possible they would make good money if they had a skinned Overlay, but it's possible that they wouldn't so they erred on the side of caution with the DP floating mixer being their standard code.
It's why I don't expect DP9 NextGen PreGen until June, it could be the best thing to happen for MOTU in terms of DP sales, or if it comes out buggy, it could be a fiasco of internet rants about DP9 being a bug fest.

Thanks Michael for the FINE FADERS tip. I didn't even consider FF would work with the DP mixer also.

Just so there's no confusion I'm not talking about the 'Fine Faders' button on the Raven. You have to hold down the Command key on your computer keyboard like you would with getting fine adjustments in DP without Raven, but that works great with using the touch screen as well! Considering the size of the faders in DP it makes it useable.

BTW hitting the Fine Faders button on the Raven does not work in the DP mixer, but holding down the Command key does work to instantiate Fine Faders in the Raven Mixer! Odd advantage in the Raven Mixer?? I never noticed that the Command key for MIDI faders doesn't work in the DP Mixer?? Nice surprise is it does work in the Raven Mixer!

[waxman]

Just so there's no confusion I'm not talking about the 'Fine Faders' button on the Raven. You have to hold down the Command key on your computer keyboard like you would with getting fine adjustments in DP without Raven, but that works great with using the touch screen as well! Considering the size of the faders in DP it makes it useable.

BTW hitting the Fine Faders button on the Raven does not work in the DP mixer, but holding down the Command key does work to instantiate Fine Faders in the Raven Mixer! Odd advantage in the Raven Mixer?? I never noticed that the Command key for MIDI faders doesn't work in the DP Mixer?? Nice surprise is it does work in the Raven Mixer!

Yes I found the fine fader dp option the hard way... But thanks for the tip anyway because it got me looking.

Honestly I can't deal with just the DP fader section now. I am addicted to the Raven faders. Amazingly today my brain started adjusting to the size difference and seeing the 24 channels of Raven as a block and the 24 channels of dp as a separate block. And I am actually getting used to looking up from the Raven and finding the right channel to work on the upper DP mixer. Getting the scribble strip clear helped. Also I went to the Digital Performer for the Colors and the subtle blues seem to make searching the dp mixer easier. So the spatial reality is starting to work as is the muscle memory of hitting the small DP buttons. I'm going to press JameyZ for an answer on if they would consider sizing the Raven. If not I'll just get used to the flow as is. Bottom line the Raven is million times better then the Mackie MCU Pros.

[waxman]

Hey look at this thread on Slate Forum. Evidently things are not so ducky with lining up the Raven in Logic Pro X... I think if they just made a fader option that was the same size as DP it would be better then Logic Pro or PT which use HUI for the controllers. I have found HUI inferior to Mackie Protocol.

When done with production just pop over to the big Raven and leave automation in update mode. Also DP's windows quick keys could allow to jump back and forth... Look at the pic. Actually IMO the controls in Logic are too small. Check it out the Logic channels are 11/16" and in DP the Raven is 13/16". So it looks like they can make the Raven channel width any size they want...

http://slate.boards.net/thread/844/alig ... nels-match

[waxman]

I decided to slow my roll a bit. I wrote my ads but didn't place them... I just de-commissioned the Raven. If any time in the next few weeks I think, "gee, I sure wish I had the Raven for this," I'll plug it back in. If not, eBay it is.

YAY!!! Dude we need you to get Slate to change the DP version. By the way on the Slate forum JameyZ mentioned some fixes the update would have on next weeks release. It does not sound like it addresses much of what is wrong with the DP version. Jim do you know what fixes they are doing?

[waxman]

If Slate will reduce the size of it's channels in the floating mixer to 9/16" it will line up with with DP. Logic Pro X is 11/16". The width of the Raven floating mixer in DP currently is 13/16"

DP 9/16"


Logic Pro X 11/16


Raven currently in DP is 13/16"

[Gravity Jim]

Couple of days of working at composition here, and the only thing I've missed from Raven has been the floating mixer, which I didn't really use for mixing but more for adjustments while I was composing. I just started running EyoControl ($5.99) via Mackie protocol on an iPad, and realizing it's all I need.

So long, Raven. You're like a Hollywood girl... sexy, alluring, an amazing first few nights... just not enough substance to justify the expense.

[waxman]

Couple of days of working at composition here, and the only thing I've missed from Raven has been the floating mixer, which I didn't really use for mixing but more for adjustments while I was composing. I just started running EyoControl ($5.99) via Mackie protocol on an iPad, and realizing it's all I need.

So long, Raven. You're like a Hollywood girl... sexy, alluring, an amazing first few nights... just not enough substance to justify the expense.

Well Jim like we said when we bought the Raven $1000 bucks was worth the experiment. I think you may even make a Benjamin for the aggravation. Sorry to hear you're bailing but I get it. Who knows maybe this will stir MOTU up to do their own. I am sold on the floating mixer. I don't use the full mixer yet although I am going to give it an honest shot this week on a mix I did all the production on the Raven. I've tried all the iPad mixers. I loved the V-Control Pro. I have a feeling they have done some of the work on the Raven. I know they are using their software. I just need more faders and I like the touch monitor right in my grill... ok buddy good luck.

https://neyrinck.com/products/v-control ... e-apps/#pm

[Michael Canavan]

Funny, again, the two things I wanted the Raven covers, it's a good Mackie Control replacement and you can control VSTs with your fingers instead of a mouse.

I suppose if you're OK with mousing for mixing it's not going to be appealing. I'm not sure that it's that important to get it to act exactly like the DP mixer, at least not for me.

[waxman]

Funny, again, the two things I wanted the Raven covers, it's a good Mackie Control replacement and you can control VSTs with your fingers instead of a mouse.

I suppose if you're OK with mousing for mixing it's not going to be appealing. I'm not sure that it's that important to get it to act exactly like the DP mixer, at least not for me.

Agreed... The Raven and Batch Command is STABLE and working fantastic for me. It's a Mackie killer (or any other DAW controller) in IMO. I sold my Mackie's, got the Raven and freed up a grand. My set up and workflow is tighter and cleaner. Ergonomically it solved so many issues and I am using the mouse way less, using both hands and adjusting most UAD plugins by touch. It's easier on the eyes to have a screen so close.

I would like to see a change in the channel width on the Raven floating mixer to match DP at approximately 9/16" but it's not a deal breaker.

[Gravity Jim]

I just don't get it. The Raven for DP is actually ADDING keystrokes and mouse clicks for me. It's not anything like a console, which I ditched in favor of the Raven (when I foolishly expected it to work). The Raven actually gets in the way of my workflow.

How is it mixing when you have to leave the mixer, pick up a mouse and click on something in the DP mixer in order to adjust an EQ setting? Or select a channel in DP for the INS button to work correctly? How is touching a plug-in even as good as simply adjusting the plug in with a mouse or typed-in values?

If you think the emperor is reasonably well-dressed, well, great. But from my seat, he looks purt-near nekkid. Mine is shipping to some guy in Florida in a couple hours. I hope it works better for him than it did for me. By simply moving my "floating mixer" over to an unused iPad, I'm freeing up a grand, too.

Maybe the difference is that I never record a band, or use 8 mics on a drummer. I primarily record myself, one track at a time, and I kind of mix as I arrange as I compose. I'm really glad I got rid of my Tascam DM3200, and I really love the improved audio from my MOTU 896mk3. So I'm kind of grateful to Slate for breaking me out of my rut. If they had just shipped a working version, I'd probably still think I needed one.... but as it turns out, what I've learned from this experience is that I don't need a console at all.

[waxman]

I just don't get it. The Raven for DP is actually ADDING keystrokes and mouse clicks for me. It's not anything like a console, which I ditched in favor of the Raven (when I foolishly expected it to work). The Raven actually gets in the way of my workflow.

How is it mixing when you have to leave the mixer, pick up a mouse and click on something in the DP mixer in order to adjust an EQ setting? Or select a channel in DP for the INS button to work correctly? How is touching a plug-in even as good as simply adjusting the plug in with a mouse or typed-in values?

Here's how... Last night I was working at my friends studio. Many famous albums on the wall, grammy's, big name clientele. I was working on a API 40 channel vintage and killer console. At about 6 feet wide and 40 inches deep. I had to stretch and stand to reach the beautiful api 550 eq's. I had to roll to the equipment racks to use the Neve side car and vintage LA2A's, hardware verbs, harmonizers, delays etc. I am grateful to have an occasional "back to the future" experience.

I am also grateful to get back to The Raven which does 48 channels in 27 inches (not 6 feet) with one button push. I reach 10 inches with my index finger to open any effect insert from the DP customized mixer. The plug pops up in front of me and I make adjustments with my index finger with my elbow still resting on the front of the table. I never touch the mouse in that scenario. The faders feel as good actually even better then the vintage API console from last night.

If you think the emperor is reasonably well-dressed, well, great. But from my seat, he looks purt-near nekkid. Mine is shipping to some guy in Florida in a couple hours. I hope it works better for him than it did for me. By simply moving my "floating mixer" over to an unused iPad, I'm freeing up a grand, too.

The "nekkid emperors" ahhh.... I'm not gonna touch. Control rooms are kinky enough man. As for the iPad mixing I found that even more ergonomically challenged, it's cheap and you get what you paid for like a cheap "Hollywood Hooker" not that I would know I am pretty sure you will ditch the iPad mixing soon without an STD. It's easier to adjust the DP mixer by mouse and your eyes never leave the work environment. But for $5.99 how could you not splurge.

Maybe the difference is that I never record a band, or use 8 mics on a drummer. I primarily record myself, one track at a time, and I kind of mix as I arrange as I compose. I'm really glad I got rid of my Tascam DM3200, ....

That is EXACTLY the DIFFERENCE brotherman Jim. I use an Apollo 16 and an additional Focusrite i/o over ADAT when needed. The front end is 32 channels on 4 Focusrite ISA 828's. I need that set up as much as my simple VI's and recording one track at a time.

If I were doing a composition in a bedroom studio level production environment I would be in your camp. iPad, mouse, iPhone etc. way less stress
Just be glad you are not managing a traditional Vintage studio with a million dollar room, vintage gear that needs regular tech person. I've had a few of those...

really love the improved audio from my MOTU 896mk3.

While your ditching gear get an Apollo Twin and you'll love the "improved audio" even more!

So I'm kind of grateful to Slate for breaking me out of my rut. If they had just shipped a working version, I'd probably still think I needed one.... but as it turns out, what I've learned from this experience is that I don't need a console at all.

BRAVO! in finding the silver lining. Ok dude carry on. You came out clean on this one and found a better space in the process.

Enjoy the journey... and please be cool on the Raven bashing as a courtesy as I need a lot of DP/Raven users to get some improvements done by Slate.

[Michael Canavan]

How is it mixing when you have to leave the mixer, pick up a mouse and click on something in the DP mixer in order to adjust an EQ setting? Or select a channel in DP for the INS button to work correctly? How is touching a plug-in even as good as simply adjusting the plug in with a mouse or typed-in values?

I never used the Mackie to adjust EQs etc. I always found that was more work than necessary. If a plug in has more than 128 parameters it's completely useless to use hardware, but using your finger IMO anyway is far more involving than using a mouse. The caveat is the occasional plug in with a design from 2000 like the Arturia CS80 etc.

You don't have to go to DP to select a channel, you can select the floating or raven mixer channel by touching that mixer channel, no mousing involved. You don't have to leave the Raven mixer anymore now that 9.02 fixes the INS channel.

So yeah, if you believe that's a good reason to not like the Raven then I think you sold it too soon, but I'm not one to think everyone needs to work the same way, for me the big thing was a 27" monitor that I could also do mixing on, plus the ability to mess with plug ins. If you mainly use EQs I could see how that wouldn't be that much more appealing than an iPad app, but I don't own an iPad, and an iPad is still a PITA for controlling plug ins like Zebra, so is a mouse or controller, here's the quick access X/Y modulation page in Zebra 2.


And that, is why touch IMO is better than a mouse.

[waxman]

If you mainly use EQs I could see how that wouldn't be that much more appealing than an iPad app, but I don't own an iPad, and an iPad is still a PITA for controlling plug ins like Zebra, so is a mouse or controller, here's the quick access X/Y modulation page in Zebra 2.


And that, is why touch IMO is better than a mouse.

Yep and as the software engineers get more down with TOUCH it will get killer. Remember the old days when you had to draw cables to connect different gear on screen. Now it just works you get a choice and you just click. I am 100% convinced the Raven ecosystem will get better and better. You'll TOUCH what you want and the Raven will just work.