Monoprice Sub anyone?

dix · Post by **dix** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:04 pm

At $219 it seems to good be true. Predictably, the reviews on the site are all stellar.

More generally, what's the diff between high and low priced subs? Whenever I've heard studio subs soloed they're usually not doing all that much. It seems like you wouldn't need an expensive one.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=1 ... 1&format=2

dix · Post by **dix** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:19 pm

Actually, $204 new on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/231479960901

kgdrum · Post by **kgdrum** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:33 pm

fwiw I worked in the Hi-Fi & Pro-Audio market for 11 years imo a good sub costs $$.
It needs a a good woofer w/ a good amp & crossover w: a solid enclosure,these all cost money to build.
In my experience a great sub sounds awesome and a cheap sub sounds like a pile of mud under the music.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 4:36 pm

Better to ask, "what's the difference between a home theater and a studio sub?"

A studio sub has a high pass filter for your mains, typically 80Hz. This filter lets you crank your mains while the sub reproduces the extreme lows only. These are easier to tune and trust. 80Hz is often above the port wooliness of most desktop speakers. For example, the Equator D8 sounds ok without a sub but much better with that crossover frequency to a sub.

Most home theater type subs do not have a high pass filter, containing a variable low pass filter only. You blend the sub with your mains to add boom to the bottom but your mains operate in full range always. It's not that hard to get these to sound ok but you will always fight the reinforcement and cancellation of frequencies. Now, many small monitors have a natural cutoff in the low end but there's the port and...

While the manual hints that the low pass filter is really a crossover, it never states it. I've never seen a variable crossover in a sub four-figure unit and it would surprise me if this has one.

Depending on your mains, this will likely improve your sound but not like a JBL LSR310S at $399
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR310S

dix · Post by **dix** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:02 pm

Thanks for the advice!

I was told by a very good mastering engineer that even a cheap sub can really help in avoiding surprises at the mastering session. However, his cheap and my cheap might be different. He also advised keeping it at a very low, just barely there, level.

At this price I'd of thought I could find someone out there that uses it, but so far nada. No one in gearslutz or TapeOp etc. - which in itself may tell me something.

stubbsonic · Post by **stubbsonic** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 7:56 pm

I got a sub for my living room from a neighbor at a yard sale, and along with some decent bookshelf speakers, it makes our TV viewing quite satisfying. It is nice being able to dial in both the volume and the low-pass freq. Finding the sweet spot where it feels/sounds seamless with the other speakers is key. To me, that means the exact right balance (level of the sub) and the right crossover --so that the sub is really taking over for the speakers right at the right frequency.

One thing that I look for is what the real bottom frequency is. You can get a cheaper sub that will help out between 80-120Hz, but doesn't give you much help in the 20-60 Hz range.

Having that heft down there in the 20-40Hz is quite lovely (if used responsibly).

I suppose you can use the reviews and specs to determine if it will do what you need. And at that price, if the specs indicate a decent product, you don't have much to lose.

[EDIT: I just looked at the specs, but they don't give the details about the frequency range. It does go down to 20Hz, but it doesn't say down how many dB.]

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:10 pm

There is plenty of good advice on how to calibrate a sub to the correct levels and polarity for your room.

Again, since you are making decisions down there, a home theater sub without an actual crossover is not ideal. Yes, it adds overall warmth but it's impossible to avoid reinforcement on some frequencies and cancellation on others without a built in crossover as opposed to a low pass filter only.

Certainly ignore engineer guy about keeping the levels too low. Knowing only that everything you hear is wrong does no good.

$399 seems to be the entry point with products from Presonus, KRK and JBL Unfortunately, there is no web site that offers real world, hands on reviews of these that tell you what you really want to know. Those "I bought this and it really rocks cuz... " write ups are totally useless.

The JBL has been recommended by people I trust and is likely to be the one I buy.

The other contenders in that price range include the Presonus Temblor T10 (here's a non-review review)
http://www.wirerealm.com/reviews/preson ... fer-review
And the KRK 10S
http://www.krksys.com/krk-subwoofers/10s.html

All three are priced the same, spec about the same and have that 80Hz high pass filter. You know that they don't all sound the same, however. I think that any of these will do the job you want.

KRK has a good .pdf for setting up your sub including downloadable test tones (!)
http://www.krksys.com/manuals/subwoofer ... 282013.pdf

dix · Post by **dix** » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:07 pm

Well, I was hoping a reliable source with experience with both the Monoprice and the name brands, but that does seem unlikely.

It was when the TapeOp crowd got excited by Monoprice's cheap headphones that I first noticed the company. However, apart from their cables, there doesn't appear to be any similar ground swell for any of their other knock-off products.

This article has convinced me to wait until I have more money and patience to get the sub. According to this you can easily do more harm than good if it's not set up right. I don't care to spend $400 for the pleasure of screwing up my tracks at this time. ...I'm basically okay as-is. I'm mainly a composer, not a mixer. I was just looking for an expensive way to improve things

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jul02/a ... oofers.asp

Keep me posted if you get the JBL, Mike. Thx.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:53 pm

dix wrote:Well, I was hoping a reliable source with experience with both the Monoprice and the name brands, but that does seem unlikely.
...
Keep me posted if you get the JBL, Mike. Thx.

I picked one up last week.
http://www.jblpro.com/www/products/reco ... eJGP7SYUm4

The $299 offers from a couple of months ago are now nowhere to be seen. However, using a Guitar Center 15% off coupon and a no sales tax offer, I paid $339.15 – I'll take it. Buying an sE Reflexion Pro on the same ticket probably helped.

My old cables were no longer going to work so I decided to go with new cables. Being one-armed, the days of firing up the soldering station are gone and GC didn't have what I wanted so I ordered a new set from Markertek. Those came this morning and it took awhile but I have it working. I run my monitors through a Behringer MiniMON which works much better than its low price lets you expect.

One of my go-to recordings for a sub is Album 1700. Dick Kniss and Bill Lee's basses are well recorded and I know exactly what they should sound like. Leaving on a Jet Plane, Whatshername and The House Song are good tests for a sub.

Anyway, right now I have it set up by the whizbang approach (anyone who owned a TASCAM multitrack reel to reel might remember that term from the setup manual). Essentially, it means that I have set it up by ear so that it sounds good to me. I'm going to give it about 100 hours for the speaker to break in before I get out the measuring mic and test tones and set this up to be as flat as I can in this room.

First impressions are that it performs quite well and with the crossover set in the 80Hz position, it sounds natural. It may be a bit low for my Equator D5s but there's another setting for using an outside crossover – I may or may not try that later.

I will probably never listen in the EFX setting that tries to emulate how a mix will sound in a dance club. This kicks the crossover to 120Hz and boosts a half octave around 60Hz to increase the sub 10dB: A JBL first, the XLF setting activates a specially-engineered tuning that emulates the ample bass tuning used in today's dance clubs. When producing a dance track, the XLF setting will inspire you and bring a bit of the club to your control from. For inspiration to the max, position the LSR310S in the nearest corner of your room and activate the XLF setting.
https://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachmen ... 0_2014.pdf

The only feature missing is one found on a few others in this price range and that is the ability to use a footswitch to bypass the sub and listen to the monitors full range. The KRK 10S and PreSonus Presonus Temblor T10 both have that. If I go to an external crossover, then I have other ways of enabling that functionality or do what I have done previously and run both my mains and sub full-range.

One of the reasons I bough a new sub is because running both full-range was no longer acceptable. I could have just used an external crossover but my old sub sucked, frankly.

Anyway, I'm liking it and in another 99 hours or so will try to set it up right.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 5:20 pm

Back to the OP.

While there's no way of knowing how good that Monoprice sub is, using the right external crossover could add some of the missing features and let you use it in a small studio. No guarantees that it has the low end extension, flat response and power handling you need but...

The right crossover has a variable frequency between 50 and 200Hz. It can flip the low channel 180° which is important during setup. The DOD SR823 or SR834 are good candidates. The SR835 is not.

Guitar Center has a couple of uses SE834s for $69 and $99. These have a switchable feature that takes the low xover to sweep between 10 and 200Hx – perfect for setting up a sub.
http://rdn.harmanpro.com/product_docume ... iginal.pdf

There are a number of other good units on the market but I like the price point and features of the SE834. Too bad it's been discontinued and only available used.

dix · Post by **dix** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:56 pm

Thanks for the report Mike! Sounds like your having a fun time dialing in your new sub.

Based on this and the previous posts I guess I will hold out for a bit until my finances are more solid so I can go for the the JBL or better. Since there's no immediate need there's no real need to experiment with ultra cheep options or crossover schemes.

Thanks again.

bongo_x · Post by **bongo_x** » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:57 pm

I haven’t used this one, but I’ve been in several big studios that had lower end subs. As you heard, set it up right and keep it low and it can be useful, but be careful with it. But that applies to all of them. It has a footswitch and polarity switch, so that’s a good thing.

mikehalloran · Post by **mikehalloran** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:17 am

bongo_x wrote:I haven’t used this one, but I’ve been in several big studios that had lower end subs. As you heard, set it up right and keep it low and it can be useful, but be careful with it. But that applies to all of them. It has a footswitch and polarity switch, so that’s a good thing.

The foot switch is only a momentary off switch on this. On higher end units the foot switch also bypasses the high pass filter that the Monoprice doesn't have.

A studio sub has only one requirement and that is to help you obtain a mix you can trust. A home entertainment sub just has to sound ok in your system.

MOTUnation.com