New Mac Pro DP8

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Chris T
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New Mac Pro DP8

Post by Chris T »

I'm thinking of doing a big upgrade soon. Anybody else using Digital Perfomer 8, VE Pro, a ton of VIs, soft synths, plugs etc with the NEW Mac Pro. If so how is it behaving, and what Mac Pro specs are you on? I obviously want the most powerful Mac possible, but don't want to overkill it if DP can't utilize the extra juice.

I'm also thinking of going Apollo Quad (instead of my old MOTU 2408s). For my large orchestral template, I currently run 2 external Mac Minis (which are Ethernet-audio to my Mac Pro). I also have 2 PPCs, one of which I might retire (due to old age), but the other uses an RME Digiface so I'll need at least 1 ADAT in to the new Soundcard.

Also, there's a rumor that a new MAC PRO might be out by end of this year / early 2015 with the new Xeon processors, so I'm wondering if I should wait till then…. Problem is I'm still on OS10.6.8 (an old 2007 Mac Pro), so I'm not able to upgrade my OS to Mavericks until I get the new machine, which is now becoming problematic.

Any thoughts would be most appreciated!

Gracias!
Main SYS: 12-Core New Mac Pro (Dec 2013), 64GB RAM, OS10.10, Apollo Quad Interface, 3xSSD work/sound drives in TB Enclosure, UAD Plugs, DP, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2nd SYS: Intel 8-Core Mac Pro (2007), 28GB RAM, OS10.7, MOTU PCI 424, 2408 interfaces (4), DP8.07, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2 Mac Minis (2011): Dual Quad, 16GB RAM running VE Pro, various libraries in Kontakt, G-Player, UVI.
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BKK-OZ
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by BKK-OZ »

I've got a 6-core with 32giggly bits of RAM.

No Ve, but I do run lots of VI's with no problems whatever.
I run a very low buffer (128) and apart from Mach V (naughty M5!), I don't get processor spikes or other hiccups. I'm very happy with my set up, but others here say that the previous generation MP is fine too. I had to move up, my old MP is a 2/1 vintage, and it was really starting to struggle and I just didn't want to go through another upgrade cycle in 2015, so I bit the bullet and got one of the Darth-cans pretty much as soon as they came out.

Remember with the new MPs, everything is now a peripheral, so you need to budget for that too. I ended up going with a Pegasus R4 external RAID box, which so far has been great for my needs (very snappy).

Sorry, can't help you on the other questions.
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
Chris T
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by Chris T »

Thanks BKK.

To quote from the Apple site, I assume that the
"2.7GHz 12-core with 30MB of L3 cache"
is "better" than the 6-core or 8-core.

However, does anybody know if DP (with its specific architecture / multi-core capabilities) would actually make use of the increased speed of a 12-core machine?
Main SYS: 12-Core New Mac Pro (Dec 2013), 64GB RAM, OS10.10, Apollo Quad Interface, 3xSSD work/sound drives in TB Enclosure, UAD Plugs, DP, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2nd SYS: Intel 8-Core Mac Pro (2007), 28GB RAM, OS10.7, MOTU PCI 424, 2408 interfaces (4), DP8.07, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2 Mac Minis (2011): Dual Quad, 16GB RAM running VE Pro, various libraries in Kontakt, G-Player, UVI.
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HCMarkus
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by HCMarkus »

DP appears to scale across cores very well, so the 12 core should be the fastest. The 8 core is very sweet, in that it gets you lots of cores with the faster clock speed that is nice for single-threaded apps. Get plenty of RAM and go for the biggest internal PCIe storage available.

Alternately, if you aren't afraid to muck around inside a computer, you can put together a 12 core beast that will compete with the fastest 6.1 for under $2500 (plus RAM and SSDs) by retrofitting a 2010/2012 5,1 Mac Pro with new CPUs. Used Xeon 5680 (3.33) and 5690 (3.47) are readily available on ebay for about $300 each and are easy to install in a 5,1. Ask SixStringGeek.

And check out the new MOTU thunderbolt/USB2 interfaces. They are looking very nice, with significant bang for the buck, and use top quality converters. Three models offer a verity of inputs, but all provide the ADAT i/o you seek.
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mikehalloran
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by mikehalloran »

You can have the latest and greatest CPUs and RAM now. OWC can upgrade the current model for less than buying it from Apple.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/ ... c_Pro_2013

Buy the lowest model with the video cards that you want and send it to them. If you're really savvy with such work, it's possible to buy them and do it yourself.

http://eshop.macsales.com/installvideos ... 13_proc_h/

http://eshop.macsales.com/search/Xeon

You can save $450 - $1,100 depending on the model by buying from the Refurb Store.
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

You can add AppleCare for three years of phone support--with the issues that come up when something doesn't run riight, this is highly recommended.
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Chris T
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by Chris T »

Thanks HCMarkus

I'm working in DP8, running video off program drive, running samples of 2 or 3 external drives. In DP on the Mac Pro I'll be running my samples in Kontakt, also multiple VIs / plugs - Spectrasonics, Ozone, Waves, Altiverb etc. I also plan to run templates in VE Pro Server on the same machine (various Kontakt libraries, and all my drums / perc sounds - Cinesamples, Truestrike etc). Loops also - in Kontakt, Stylus, Stormdum.

With this is mind, would a 12-Core, 2.7Ghz machine be better than the 6-Core 3.5Ghz machine ? (I.e. apart from DP, does the other software I used benefit better from more (slower) cores, or fewer (faster) cores?

Thanks!
Main SYS: 12-Core New Mac Pro (Dec 2013), 64GB RAM, OS10.10, Apollo Quad Interface, 3xSSD work/sound drives in TB Enclosure, UAD Plugs, DP, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2nd SYS: Intel 8-Core Mac Pro (2007), 28GB RAM, OS10.7, MOTU PCI 424, 2408 interfaces (4), DP8.07, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2 Mac Minis (2011): Dual Quad, 16GB RAM running VE Pro, various libraries in Kontakt, G-Player, UVI.
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HCMarkus
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by HCMarkus »

Chris T wrote:With this is mind, would a 12-Core, 2.7Ghz machine be better than the 6-Core 3.5Ghz machine ? (I.e. apart from DP, does the other software I used benefit better from more (slower) cores, or fewer (faster) cores?

Thanks!
Although scalling across cores is not typically 100% efficient, there is also OS overhead, which is a constant, so you should be able to get a pretty good idea of relative power for DP by simply multiplying cores by speed:

12 x 2.7 = 32.4
6 x 3.5 = 21.0

This assumes the max clock speed with all cores fully engaged is as Intel states. As you can see, the ratio is about 3 to 2, so the 12 core should be able to handle about half again more VIs than the hex. But single threaded apps won't be quite as snappy with the big beast.

Also, check Geekbench multi-core scores for the machines you are considering.
Chris T
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by Chris T »

Cool. Thanks for that.

I know Kontakt is Multi-core, and is VE Pro. Any idea about other VIs? (Spectrasonics, Pappen, Zebra, other NI instruments etc ?…).

I'm assuming though that since my main loads are on DP, VE Pro and Kontakt, that the 12-Core machine would be the best performer, especially since I tend to use lots of plugs (including Altiverb) within DP, which can be processor-heavy….right?
Main SYS: 12-Core New Mac Pro (Dec 2013), 64GB RAM, OS10.10, Apollo Quad Interface, 3xSSD work/sound drives in TB Enclosure, UAD Plugs, DP, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2nd SYS: Intel 8-Core Mac Pro (2007), 28GB RAM, OS10.7, MOTU PCI 424, 2408 interfaces (4), DP8.07, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2 Mac Minis (2011): Dual Quad, 16GB RAM running VE Pro, various libraries in Kontakt, G-Player, UVI.
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HCMarkus
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by HCMarkus »

Chris, take a look at Geekbench multicore 64 bit scores, compare what you are thinking about buying to your current Mac, and you will have a pretty good idea about how much more powerful the new machine will be.

Big advances have been made since 2007.
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bayswater
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by bayswater »

Chris T wrote:Cool. Thanks for that.

I know Kontakt is Multi-core, and is VE Pro. Any idea about other VIs? (Spectrasonics, Pappen, Zebra, other NI instruments etc ?…).

I'm assuming though that since my main loads are on DP, VE Pro and Kontakt, that the 12-Core machine would be the best performer, especially since I tend to use lots of plugs (including Altiverb) within DP, which can be processor-heavy….right?
My understanding is that you don't worry about whether a plugin is multicore. Instead you use a separate instance for each sound, or for each small group of sounds, and then DP looks after the allocation to processors.
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BKK-OZ
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by BKK-OZ »

As I understand it from reading a post awhile back from Magic Dave, the instances need to be on separate tracks/channels, for the load to be spread out across cores.
Cheers,
BK

…string theory says that all subatomic particles of the universe are nothing but musical notes. A, B-flat, C-sharp, correspond to electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and what have you. Therefore, physics is nothing but the laws of harmony of these strings. Chemistry is nothing but the melodies we can play on these strings. The universe is a symphony of strings and the mind of God… it is cosmic music resonating through 11 dimensional hyperspace.
- M Kaku
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Steve Steele
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by Steve Steele »

There's also the idea of taking the money you save from buying a 6 core instead of a 12 core MP and buying an iMac for a DP host, while adding a 6 core for your VEPro slave. You'd have plenty of power on the iMac to run DP, most plugins, some VIs and some light VEPro instances on that too.

I'm considering either..

12 core 64GBs
or
6 core 64 GBs
or
iMac 27" i7 3.5GHz plus a 6 core MP slave
or
2010 MP 3.47 GHz and iMac

The Geekbench score for a combined iMac i7 3.5 and a current 6 core 3.5GHz is 35526. That's equal to the 12 core. The iMac/6 core system might feel quicker, but you have to factor in the 2 system latency not to mention any hassles with a 2 computer system.

iMac + 6 core = $9000 (more or less)
12 core = $9000 (more or less)

interesting thought

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mikehalloran
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by mikehalloran »

You can save a few thousand dollars by getting a base nMP from Apple's Refurb Store and upgrading the processor to a 12 core. I'd post the link but Apple has the store down at the moment.

Select the base model by the video processors you want (300/500/700). OWC can do a turnkey install of an 8, 10 or 12 core as you like or will sell you the CPU if you're up to doing it yourself. They have an installation video you can watch. It's quite likely that OWC has the CPUs that will be offered in the next gen of the nMP.

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/turnkey/ ... c_Pro_2013

I highly recommend AppleCare. Even though it won't support the CPU upgrade, there are many times I have found the three year phone support useful when trying to trace problems caused by OS updates incompatible with old applications.
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HCMarkus
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by HCMarkus »

Next gen nMP will almost certainly be using a different CPU socket, but an upgrade from quad to 6-8-10-12 core CPU is a definite option.
Chris T
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Re: New Mac Pro DP8

Post by Chris T »

Next gen nMP will almost certainly be using a different CPU socket
What does this mean? Any reason why waiting for the nMP could be a disadvantage (apart from the fact that I have to wait!).

I also posted on Mac Rumors, and it seems like there's a consensus AGAINST getting a 12-core nMP for DAW use since most audio software cannot really utilize that many cores, and so the individual processor speed is the crucial factor.

Any more opinions on this?..
Main SYS: 12-Core New Mac Pro (Dec 2013), 64GB RAM, OS10.10, Apollo Quad Interface, 3xSSD work/sound drives in TB Enclosure, UAD Plugs, DP, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2nd SYS: Intel 8-Core Mac Pro (2007), 28GB RAM, OS10.7, MOTU PCI 424, 2408 interfaces (4), DP8.07, VE PRO, All NI, All Spectrasonics, many libraries, VIs etc.
2 Mac Minis (2011): Dual Quad, 16GB RAM running VE Pro, various libraries in Kontakt, G-Player, UVI.
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