Mics and Pre-Amps again

[Shooshie]

Well, it's funny how things sometimes turn out. I was going to take my time and look around till sometime next year, but instead I found some deals and ended up with a Millennium HV3D box and two Neumann mics on the way: an M149 and a U89i. All appear to be in good condition, and the prices were just too good to pass up.

I've got bids on several U87ai's, and I've been outbid on most of them, simply because I wasn't willing to go any higher for a used mic. I think I'll get at least one, if not two, before it's over. They're actually going for extremely high prices for used mics. I guess that's a Neumann thing. But if I'm within regretting distance from retail price, I'd rather get new ones. So, I keep my bids pretty low.

If I don't like 'em, I can always resell 'em.

Shooshie

[mhschmieder]

Lots of good pre-amp choices depending on channel count. I still love my True Precision 8 and am happy they're back under Sennheiser distribution as I get concerned sometimes about small vendors and long-term maintenance issues should they go away (usually a distributor will take on that responsibility should that happen; whereas an orphaned brand typically has no support once they're gone). Working in the industry, I know how quickly things can change, as well as how much consolidation there is right now. I had to have one of the DI channels repaired once; the newer ones have an improved design where that jack shouldn't have wear problems.

If you only need four channels, a good bargain choice is the one from ShinyBox, which is slightly better (value/quality/construction/reliability) than the well-known one whose name I now forget but which is often used for toms.

On a bigger budget, four-channel options from Millennia or Earthworks are good options. Again, I'd be a bit concerned about 20 years down the pike, if those companies are still around, but on the other hand the sort of things that might need maintenance are probably generic enough that any competent repair person could probably take care of it.

Well, if one only sticks with safe companies in this economy, the choices aren't as good, so I'd vote for focusing on quality and bang-for-buck, but it's important to consider the risk in buying from small vendors and to be aware of it. I personally prefer to support such companies.

Oops, didn't see there was one more post on the second page and that you're "done". Still this might help others. There's a few newer four-channel options announced at AES last year from boutique vendors but they're towards the stratosphere price-wise.

[mhschmieder]

Oh, you asked if there's a way to hear a certain mic through six different pre-amps, and indeed there is: Warren Dent's "Clip-a-lator" at zenproaudio. He has an 'ukulele site now as well (zenukes) which has its own uke-a-lator (or something like that). Very well done comparisons.

[Sean Kenny]

Well, it's funny how things sometimes turn out. I was going to take my time and look around till sometime next year, but instead I found some deals and ended up with a Millennium HV3D box and two Neumann mics on the way: an M149 and a U89i. All appear to be in good condition, and the prices were just too good to pass up.

I've got bids on several U87ai's, and I've been outbid on most of them, simply because I wasn't willing to go any higher for a used mic. I think I'll get at least one, if not two, before it's over. They're actually going for extremely high prices for used mics. I guess that's a Neumann thing. But if I'm within regretting distance from retail price, I'd rather get new ones. So, I keep my bids pretty low.

If I don't like 'em, I can always resell 'em.

Shooshie

Hi Shooshie

Glad you got sorted, what I was going to say was, which U87?

The U87ai is very different from the earlier U87, way more sensitive and quite a bit brighter. So much so I'm looking out for the older version too.

The M149 is a great mic. One suggestion if your not too bothered about polar patterns is the M147 cardioid only and considerably cheaper. As for Mic pre's how long have you got! but I think the Millennia pedigree is without question, certainly that's the 'clean' sorted out, next stop i'd go for some character mic pre's, maybe a Neve clone (Brent Avril or Heritage), some API ........... bankruptcy!!

The only thing I would add is the how much the AKG414 never ceases to surprise me on certain sources with it's performance. No wonder it's an industry standard

[Phil O]

Well, it's funny how things sometimes turn out. I was going to take my time and look around till sometime next year, but instead I found some deals and ended up with a Millennium HV3D box and two Neumann mics on the way: an M149 and a U89i. All appear to be in good condition, and the prices were just too good to pass up...

With all the new stuff on the market, my taste has steered away from the vintage stuff. But, if I were to invest in a high end tube mic (probably never will), it would be the M149. A guy I know has very deep pockets and really has a jones for the Neumann stuff, so his collection of Neumann mics is extensive. And, I think I've heard them all. To tell you the truth, the only two that really impressed me were the M149s (he has a pair) and a very old U47. The U47 is quite colored, but does some special magic on vocals. The M149 has it's own character but has a more neutral sound to it and can be used on just about anything. I think you'll be real happy with the M149.

BTW, please let us know how the HV3D works out for you.

Phil

[James Steele]

I have a Millennia HV-3C and have been quite happy with it.

[Kubi]

I agree re. using MOTU interfaces bc the drivers always work and you can make full use of the zero latency monitoring etc. But that doesn't mean you should take the audio generated by your $3k worth of mics and pres and send it through a $4 IC. (This isn't a knock against MOTU, but in order to get sixteen channels of analog out of a $1k box, you have to use low-cost parts. Considering the price they sound very nice, but once you have a front end like you do now, it's really worth upgrading that last bit as well.)

So, to finish the job, try using the MOTU's digital inputs and hook up your Millennia to it via a good 3rd party AD converter. Just rent or borrow a good Benchmark or Lavry or Prism or so for a day and try for yourself. The difference is quite astonishing.

[Shooshie]

Guys, the advice you've given me is golden. I'm really happy with what I've got so far, and I think I will be getting an a/d converter to go between the Millennium and my MOTU box. I am avoiding other interfaces, because sooner or later they ALWAYS go incompatible with an Apple or MOTU upgrade, and you have to wait for them to sort it all out, or buy something else. So, as long as I have gear that's just "functioning electronics" connecting to a MOTU box, I'm pretty confident that I'll always be up and running. Let MOTU chase all the upgrades.

I do plan to try a Neve or something colored like that when I get around to it. I already have a lot to sort out.

Plus, I was bidding on some mics on eBay, and I've found myself in a dark, spooky place. I already busted one fraud (eBay's going to shut 'em down), and I may be in the middle of another one. Man, if you bid on microphones or music gear, BE CAREFUL! Study the background of not only the seller, but those who have bid on his stuff, and those who leave feedback. In the Bids page, you can click on a bidder and see their bid history. If you see a bunch whose history is with one seller, on one item, well… guess what they're doing? "They" are the seller, bidding up his own stuff. I check every one of them, and I've caught some. Frankly, I'd rather do business with Sweetwater and pay more.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to trying out some new stuff, hearing some new potential, and offering a better product. I might go back to full-time when I'm all fitted out. We'll see about that.

Shoosh

[EMRR]

A lot of people seem to say the Gordon preamps are about the best there are, if you are after the highest sense of reality. I'd love to drive a pair. Anything Forsell is very well regarded, with many comments about the sense of musicality combined with detail. The Millennia are considered dry sounding by a lot of people, still high quality units.

No ribbons? Try a Samar Audio MF65. It may turn your world upside down, for the better!

[mhschmieder]

Coles announced a cheaper ribbon at AES recently. Not sure when it is to market. Apparently their first ribbon to break the $1000 price barrier. All of my current ribbons are well under $1000 but that will change in 2014. Everyone needs a Coles 4038 and AEA R84 or R88 in their arsenal. I'm quite happy with my budget ShinyBox and Cascade FatHead II though (both with Lundahl Transformer upgrades). Once I'm back recording flute/sax/trumpet/etc. I'll need the higher end ribbons though. The AEA TRP ribbon mic pre is awesome and not just for ribbons. It's now my high-end two-channel overdub unit as well as for drum tracking ribbons.

[EMRR]

You haven't heard natural treble extension in a ribbon until you've heard a Samar MF65. I've driven Coles, RCA 44's and 77's, and passed on those to get the MF65.

[Shooshie]

A lot of people seem to say the Gordon preamps are about the best there are, if you are after the highest sense of reality. I'd love to drive a pair. Anything Forsell is very well regarded, with many comments about the sense of musicality combined with detail. The Millennia are considered dry sounding by a lot of people, still high quality units.

Dry is good when you've got mics that have wonderful sounds. I'm not saying I don't want other pre-amps, but dry is a good place to start. Really.

No ribbons? Try a Samar Audio MF65. It may turn your world upside down, for the better!

Maybe. These days it seems like splitting hairs (or hair ribbons) when I hear these high-end mics placed next to each other. For example, the piano recordings in this shootout sound great on both, though I like the darkness in the low register of the Cole. But the differences between the mics pale by comparison of how poorly the piano is micced in both cases. I've got many mics that can do THAT! And I dare say that my same mics would sound better than either of those ribbons if I put them in the spots where I know to mic good grands.

So, yes, maybe the ribbons would rock my world if I put them in the right places to compete with my mics directly. But when someone doesn't know where to put them, you get a racehorse with a 200 lb. drunk jockey. And that's what I'm hearing in that shootout, at least in the piano version.

But so far I'm happy with what I have. Ribbon mics may also be on the horizon, but for now, I'm going to stick with what I'm comfortable with, and I don't want to take ribbon mics on location with me -- and I do 95% of my recording on location.

Shoosh

[Shooshie]

I have so far acquired 3 AKG 414 mics of various vintages, though two of them are close enough to use as a stereo pair, really, and less than 20 years old. I have a pair of Neumann U87ai mics, and a U89. I got the latter just out of curiosity. It's pretty dinged up, but it sounds good.

The M149 is truly an incredible mic. I'm so glad to have it. Now I want a pair! But a big surprise was the quality of the AKG 414 B XLII and its sister 414 B XLS. These are great sounding mics. I don't remember AKGs sounding that good, but it's been a long time, and the AKGs I was using back when were built like little double-trapezoidal hockey pucks. Sharp corners, solid steel construction, and the switches were sharp and would cut you or scratch your table.

In a shootout between the 414 KLS and the M149, I'd have to listen a while to hear the difference. When I started hearing the differences, they became more profound and easier to spot, but the point is that initially I could hardly tell them apart. Good mics. The M149 is indeed profoundly better, but you have to know what you're listening for.

Pre-Amps? Millennia HV-3D.

I still have my Studio Projects C3, which always got great reviews before they evolved it into something new, and my pair of Earthworks SR77s, which are more finicky, but can sure deliver if you know where to put them. (better as close mics) Also a few others, probably not worth mentioning here. The more the merrier. And the better you can mic sessions.
Glad to have some great working mics, and I appreciate all the advice.

Shoosh

[Phil O]

Sounds like you're in microphone heaven, Shoosh. Glad to hear it's working out well. I had a feeling you'd like the M149.

Phil