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BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Moderators: James Steele, ssp

Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby joker77 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:33 pm

Please allow our browser to be saved with our views that we want.. Say I'd like to look at my USER library at all times, please let me save my BPM settings.. No offense,but for fast and serious work,when I want to quickly change a kit (my user kits), I don't like to have to keep switching views.. It's really painful. And the focus is not on motu bpm kits, but yet my own kits and samples.

thanks for the consideration
Mac:Mac Pro 8 Core|12GB Ram|Lion OSX 10.7.2
Hardware:RME Fireface|Alesis Q7|Lavry AD/DA|Grace 101|FocusritePre|Presonus Monitor Station|DynAudio Bm5a Mk2|Event
Software:Maschine|Emulator X3|Mach Five 3|Geist|UVI sound libraries|Pro Tools 10|Logic 9|Studio One Pro 2
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby joker77 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:36 pm

CC for switching kits.

OR BETTER YET... Please really consider a hardware BPM controller,please.. :D
One with a screen like maschine, to where we could browse from the controller instead of using the hateful mouse..

Motu has had plenty of time for RnD to realize what NI did with sales and Maschine, if they compete with NI they will do well.. nobrainer Motu,build it please..

thanks
Last edited by joker77 on Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mac:Mac Pro 8 Core|12GB Ram|Lion OSX 10.7.2
Hardware:RME Fireface|Alesis Q7|Lavry AD/DA|Grace 101|FocusritePre|Presonus Monitor Station|DynAudio Bm5a Mk2|Event
Software:Maschine|Emulator X3|Mach Five 3|Geist|UVI sound libraries|Pro Tools 10|Logic 9|Studio One Pro 2
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby joker77 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:42 pm

We really need a way to select a sample on a pad, and then tell that pad to become a keyboard.. -c2 to g8 again alike maschine.. then record the pad/keys into the sequencer.. then undo and it switches back to a pad... smart

DEV's I know what your thinking ,just use the racks right?

well no, The racks require an extra step, you'd have to re find the sample.. many times we drag a kit on the pads, start playing, n think, wouldn't it be cool to play this pad in keys real quick... yadayada

please consider, workflow features for the next build.. thanks
Mac:Mac Pro 8 Core|12GB Ram|Lion OSX 10.7.2
Hardware:RME Fireface|Alesis Q7|Lavry AD/DA|Grace 101|FocusritePre|Presonus Monitor Station|DynAudio Bm5a Mk2|Event
Software:Maschine|Emulator X3|Mach Five 3|Geist|UVI sound libraries|Pro Tools 10|Logic 9|Studio One Pro 2
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby M-Goldie » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:41 am

ok i've only been on BPM for a few days. Its sounds really great and I'm having fun, but imo there are some very obvious basic issues (all points are for standalone mode):

1. There is NO undo? (i know there is in the sample edit). Why is there no undo? There should be unlimited undo (or you can choose levels). I also agree with a previous poster that everything should be undo-able, fader moves etc. You can set it to one level of undo if you want. The current undo record arrow is useless - it only undoes if you are in 'record', and it won't even redo, and it undoes everything you've written. But you don't even need to be in 'record' to click the grid edit, so its a waste of time. I am amazed to be honest, you couldn't design a worse undo method. Undo is one of the best things about software isn't it?

2. OSX - if you open a performance from the Finder then BPM won't display the performance name in the window header (just says 'BPM'). You have to open BPM first and then open the performance from within BPM. This is a bug, not a workflow issue.

3. If you have made any changes then it should ask if you want to 'save changes?' when you close. That is standard behaviour in any app.

4. Quantize - am I missing something here? You can input with Q on, so everything hits the beat, or without. That's it... So say I record without quantize (step sequencer), I know I can go into timeshift graph to tidy it up, but there are some pretty standard quantize methods in other apps - usually tighten up the timing by a certain percentage, or quantize to different settings. In logic you can quantize notes, and revert to original timing at any point if you want. Piano roll quantizes different to the step grid... Generally seems like quantize is pretty under represented or strangely implemented.

5. The installer doesn't create the correct soundbank folders even though it reports 'installation successful'. Small issue but confusing.

6. You should be able to scale the GUI and pull the browser drawer out further. I would even prefer to be able to unhook the window in standalone mode. This is the only app i have where i am using 'screen zoom' to use it. Especially as so much of the work is carried out in the window - i've got a 30" monitor and i'm doing all the work in a window the size of a cigarette pack...

7. i would like some indication of signal flow in the FX - eg. a simple small level meter to give you an indication of gain reduction in compressors / limiters. Would also be handy to see levels coming into reverbs and the like, just so you know its working.

8. As much as i appreciate a printed manual, a pdf manual would be useful.




Thanks
M
OSX 10.6.4 / logic pro 9 / reason 5 / bias peak 6 / bpm 1.5 /
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby ssp » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:01 am

As far as i know and this has been discussed in other sections of the site. Motu uses the fact it has no pdf manuals as a form of copy protection so to speak. I am sure James can elaborate better on this than me.

As for the undo, it does not work until you have hit record once, so you dont have to actually record anything in, just hit record for a second and then it works, a pain yes and something that will be sorted on the next update i am sure.

As for its use, if i manually grid enter undo works fine in that for me.
Website: http://www.plastikaudio.btinternet.co.uk/

mac pro 8-core, mac mirror door dp, graphite g4 400.
Motu 2408/24io interfaces, PT HD, Event opals, Focal twin 6.
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby M-Goldie » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:21 am

ssp wrote:As for the undo, it does not work until you have hit record once, so you dont have to actually record anything in, just hit record for a second and then it works, a pain yes and something that will be sorted on the next update i am sure.

As for its use, if i manually grid enter undo works fine in that for me.


thanks for the info. that has helped :)
its only half useful without a redo though, really makes you wonder what the developers are thinking. i mean to leave out redo is a decision, not an oversight. weird...

i've got two more questions if you don't mind:

1. i can't get note repeat to work at all, it doesn't seem to recognise the tempo of the track? so if i'm trying to hit simple 1/8 notes its totally out of time. and if i change the tempo of the track i can hear the note repeat doesn't change tempo at all? it still keeps banging away at its own tempo? (this is all in standalone).

2. if you uncheck 'overdub' and then go into record it just erases the entire track as it goes? this is not expected behaviour?! i would expect it to erase just the newly inputted notes on every cycle. is this a bug?

M
OSX 10.6.4 / logic pro 9 / reason 5 / bias peak 6 / bpm 1.5 /
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby b-righteous » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:01 am

The note repeat will only use the tempo of BPM if you have the sync option next to the transport disabled. Otherwise it is trying to sync external.

The erase behavior is a bit half functional so I don't use it. It just erases everything on each pass instead of erasing until loop. Would be nice if it stopped erasing after the loop cycles so it does not erase what you just played. That's the way it works on most beat boxes and workstations.

Anyway, I find it easier to just leave it on overdub and use the clear pattern button before recording. You can assign it to a button on your controller.
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby M-Goldie » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:39 pm

b-righteous wrote:The note repeat will only use the tempo of BPM if you have the sync option next to the transport disabled. Otherwise it is trying to sync external.


sync is disabled, but it appears to be still syncing to 120bpm from somewhere?

there is no change in note repeat tempo when changing it in the bpm window... even if i set the set the tempo as 10bpm i still get the hat ticking out at 120bpm.

are you on mac? seems like i'm doing something odd but i can't find it.

b-righteous wrote:The erase behavior is a bit half functional so I don't use it. It just erases everything on each pass instead of erasing until loop. Would be nice if it stopped erasing after the loop cycles so it does not erase what you just played. That's the way it works on most beat boxes and workstations.


i agree. i would say the erase behaviour makes it totally unuseable. surely it should only erase notes inputted in that recording pass? eg: you've put down bass and snare and you're happy. stop recording. so now for example you want to add some claps - start recording, this is where you might want to erase each pass just of the CLAPS until you get it right, but what it does is just erase all the other notes you have previously put in. makes you wonder if the developers actually use what they design?!
OSX 10.6.4 / logic pro 9 / reason 5 / bias peak 6 / bpm 1.5 /
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby ssp » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:49 am

[quote="M-Goldie"]

sync is disabled, but it appears to be still syncing to 120bpm from somewhere?

there is no change in note repeat tempo when changing it in the bpm window... even if i set the set the tempo as 10bpm i still get the hat ticking out at 120bpm.
[quote]

This is because all sequencers tempo defaults are 120bpm, its standard across the board. If you change the tempo of bpm so will sync.
Website: http://www.plastikaudio.btinternet.co.uk/

mac pro 8-core, mac mirror door dp, graphite g4 400.
Motu 2408/24io interfaces, PT HD, Event opals, Focal twin 6.
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby M-Goldie » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:06 am

ssp wrote:
M-Goldie wrote:
sync is disabled, but it appears to be still syncing to 120bpm from somewhere?

there is no change in note repeat tempo when changing it in the bpm window... even if i set the set the tempo as 10bpm i still get the hat ticking out at 120bpm.

This is because all sequencers tempo defaults are 120bpm, its standard across the board. If you change the tempo of bpm so will sync.


i'm obviously not making myself clear here.

for example - the track is at 84bpm, sync is NOT enabled, but the tempo of note repeat appears to be putting out 1/8 notes at 120bpm (i'm guessing 120).

if i turn the tempo of the track slower or faster the note repeat still kicks out its 1/8 notes at THE SAME tempo. so its basically not syncing to my track at all. it appears to be a bug, but i can't be the only one having this issue?

and just to be clear, i am using straight 1/8th notes or 16th. not triplets, dotted etc.
OSX 10.6.4 / logic pro 9 / reason 5 / bias peak 6 / bpm 1.5 /
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby b-righteous » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:14 am

Is this during recording a pattern or does it happen when you are not recording?

What is your pattern grid set to?

What happens if you DO enable sync?

Did you try turning on/off quantize?

Did you press play to make sure it is receiving tempo from BPM's clock?
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby M-Goldie » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:18 am

b-righteous wrote:Is this during recording a pattern or does it happen when you are not recording?

All the time, settings make no difference.

b-righteous wrote:What is your pattern grid set to?

Tried them all, makes no difference.

b-righteous wrote:What happens if you DO enable sync?

Plays at 120bpm - not adjustable as I'm running standalone.

b-righteous wrote:Did you try turning on/off quantize?

Yes, no difference.

b-righteous wrote:Did you press play to make sure it is receiving tempo from BPM's clock?

Yes, no difference.


I've done some more tests - when I'm running in logic the note repeat works properly in sync with the host tempo i.e. If you adjust logic tempo the note-repeat changes to fit the tempo.

So it seems to me like note repeat in standalone mode is not working at all and is a bug?

Can anyone else confirm this? I'm on osx.
OSX 10.6.4 / logic pro 9 / reason 5 / bias peak 6 / bpm 1.5 /
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby b-righteous » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:24 am

It may well be a bug then. I will try to confirm for you later. I honestly have not tried in stand alone. I remember that it did sync to host when I tried it and almost remember the same issue of not syncing on it's own. I am on Windows but I will report back later.
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby b-righteous » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:00 pm

Bug confirmed here on Windows for both stand alone and VST. Note repeat only syncs to host or external.
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Re: BPM 1.5 Problems & Suggestions only.

Postby M-Goldie » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:53 am

ssp wrote:As for the undo, it does not work until you have hit record once, so you dont have to actually record anything in, just hit record for a second and then it works, a pain yes and something that will be sorted on the next update i am sure.


@SSP - you seem to have some contact with MOTU. what is their thinking behind not putting 'redo'? this is a decision from the developers NOT to put this in. it is also a decision to limit it to one level.

i am losing work because of this, just undid a performance by accident, could have easily resolved it if redo was there but instead its gone. :(

to have 'redo' on the feature request list on a pro app like this is ridiculous. there is a difference between 'feature requests' and features that should just be there.
OSX 10.6.4 / logic pro 9 / reason 5 / bias peak 6 / bpm 1.5 /
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