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DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby amplidood » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:31 am

So great to see you guys excited about this. I've used DP's pitch to do so many things that no other.. and I mean NO other... software can do. I can completely reshape the melodic structure of a line with minimum artifacts. I can make notes slide or jump sooner and no one can tell. My buddies and I have used it for creative harmony work more times than I can remember. It is simply the most powerful and easy to use system there is.

I do have to flip to AutoTune (always in graphic mode) for certain kinds of vocals, as DP can get weirded out on certain harmonics and fuzz them quite a bit. I actually will do a half verse or hook test run to see which one is getting the overall most natural result. The two together are unbeatable. I've tried Melodyne so many times and just can't get past how much I can hear it doing its thing. I've tried Waves as well, with the same result.

Long live DP pitch editing!!!
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:44 pm

I really learned something from this video. Thank you.
One thing, just seeing someone else's mouse movements, zoom views and way of working is rare for me, and enlightening. It was interesting to see how most of the time you selected the pitch curves rather than the pitch segments.
I have two questions:
Why didn't you (or don't you) use the Quantize Pitch command?
Where is the exact pitch in relation to the pitch lane? That is, is A 440 in the center of the key or near the upper or lower edge of the key?
Thank you
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby Sean Kenny » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:44 am

edurbrow@sea.plala.or.jp wrote:I really learned something from this video. Thank you.
One thing, just seeing someone else's mouse movements, zoom views and way of working is rare for me, and enlightening. It was interesting to see how most of the time you selected the pitch curves rather than the pitch segments.
I have two questions:
Why didn't you (or don't you) use the Quantize Pitch command?
Where is the exact pitch in relation to the pitch lane? That is, is A 440 in the center of the key or near the upper or lower edge of the key?
Thank you


Hi Ed

Apologies for the delayed response. Quantize pitch is ok if the segmentations are perfect ie each out of tune section had it's own discrete segment. Trouble is segmentation even when adjusted manually is a bit adhoc, so when you quantize a segment you might being pulling some of the audio into tune but also the remainder of audio in that segment out of tune. Sure you can divide the segments up manually but using the cut tool but for me it's just quicker to select the offending section manually and move it to where it should be.

In answer to your second question the exact pitch is in the middle of the pitch lane, but be careful, trust you ear, sometimes you have to go a fraction above or below that.

Also when tuning monophonic guitar notes because of the lack of modulation that almost all voices have (even on apparently straight notes) you have to be really precise with the placement of the note pitch, the tiniest adjustment will make a big difference.

Cheers

Sean Kenny

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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby Ganapoes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:30 am

Your 8 minutes (for me) is probably gonna save me hours of manual reading and "messing around".
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby toodamnhip » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:53 am

Sean Kenny wrote:
Guitar Gaz wrote:
James Steele wrote: I suppose my point is that Motu should make more of this - it is almost worth buying DP for this feature alone.


Hi Gaz

I couldn't agree more. Whilst I'm a big DP fan (i still use it even though I have PT HD2) I am also a big critic in this respect. They just don't seem to be bothered about telling people how good DP is. Features=10 out of 10. Marketing= a big fat zero!

Pitch automation barely even got a mention over here, but it's been around since 4.6....something.

I only just spotted a tiny mention of it in Sound on Sound news section about 5 years ago, but nearly spat my coffee out when I read it and realised what it could the possibly be. I couldn't get my Ccard out fast enough for the download and couldn't believe it when I first tried it. I expected a big buzz about it, but nothing. People still don't really get how great it is. Have they not got ears!?

It's the best tuning package for me bar none. No it's not automatic but then that's the problem with Autotune, nothing is that clever. This kind of thing has to be done by human ear and by hand for it to be transparent.

I will be posting a more in depth vid soon for the Motunation guys.

Cheers and keep the faith

Sean Kenny

It's nice to see a tuning professional using DP.
I too use it all the time.
I recently bought melodyne and have yet to learn it well.
I have two complaints about DP's vocal handling ability, 1) That the sound deteriorates when a pitch shift is more than small interval, (many other programs can move a pitch a lot further without the artifacts DP introduces), and complaint #2 that is time stretch it is terrible beyond the smallest amounts. Melodyne and others are much much better at larger intervals and time stretch.
So what do you use when you have to really stretch a note or move it up 1.5 to 2 whole steps for example?

But, short of time stretch and larger pitch movements,,, for integration within DP , ease of use and convenience, DP's pitch correction is amazing.
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby macguy » Fri Nov 18, 2011 1:43 am

I love it but try to do parts without it because it does take the organic scope out of the sound. I can hear it working, but some may not. As soon as you change anything, there is a machine sound... no way around it but I can hear it. Just microtoanal adjustments create this effect. It's the BEST pitch shifter this side of Melodyne though.
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby toodamnhip » Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:43 am

macguy wrote:I love it but try to do parts without it because it does take the organic scope out of the sound. I can hear it working, but some may not. As soon as you change anything, there is a machine sound... no way around it but I can hear it. Just microtoanal adjustments create this effect. It's the BEST pitch shifter this side of Melodyne though.

Melodyne does indeed sound better than DP to me.
But, in most pop and commercial mixes, you can't really hear artifacts.

For a solo voice, DP might have problems at times, wherein you can hear a certain, slight buzz to the pitched notes here and there.
However, the biggest secret to pitching vocals in a commercial mix, is to leave the attacks of the pitch wherever possible, adjusting the body of a note, but not the attack...where possible
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby happymoogman » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:02 pm

Thanks for the video -- I saw Sean do something I've never seen before. With some combination of keys and the cursor, he DECREASED the size of a vibrato with a quick flick of the wrist! Awesome. How does one DO THAT?

Also, a question. Is there a way to 'even out' bad pitch on a note with the pencil tool, AND make the line somewhat squiggly, without having to totally 'freehand' it? What I mean is, is there a tool sort of like the 'flat line' pencil option, with a TINY bit of randomness to it? It would be more natural-sounding to have a small amount of imperfections in the line -- like a natural human voice. Even if I could take a straight line and 'rough it up' with some tool, it would help.

HELP?

Lastly, a tip.

Sometimes, when I don't like the vibrato of a certain vocal line, I'll copy (option + drag) a section of vibrato that I DO like, then paste THAT over the offending vibrato. I maybe have to a little pitch-shifting to get the note to be where it was originally, but the trick works beautifully.

I'd be curious to hear other tips people use in getting natural sounding vibratos, manually.

- Dana Countryman

P.S. I can't, for the life of me, figure out how to use that 'sine wave' pencil tool....

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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby Tritonemusic » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:55 pm

happymoogman wrote: I saw Sean do something I've never seen before. With some combination of keys and the cursor, he DECREASED the size of a vibrato with a quick flick of the wrist! Awesome. How does one DO THAT?


It's a very cool feature. Page 855 in the DP7 User Guide.
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby macguy » Tue Nov 22, 2011 5:13 pm

Radiogal wrote:Now I get it! It works just like when keeping the mouse clicked on a soundbite or coursor select something in a soundbite. This is what I use all the time. This way the "Audible mode" audition channels has to be correctly placed on top in "Bundles".

I found just looping the sequence and adjusting works best since you can dynamically change the loop points in 7 without any issues... everyones different though.
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby happymoogman » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:07 am

666 wrote:
happymoogman wrote: I saw Sean do something I've never seen before. With some combination of keys and the cursor, he DECREASED the size of a vibrato with a quick flick of the wrist! Awesome. How does one DO THAT?


It's a very cool feature. Page 855 in the DP7 User Guide.


THANK you!
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby happymoogman » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:33 am

happymoogman wrote:Is there a way to 'even out' bad pitch on a note with the pencil tool, AND make the line somewhat squiggly, without having to totally 'freehand' it? What I mean is, is there a tool sort of like the 'flat line' pencil option, with a TINY bit of randomness to it? It would be more natural-sounding to have a small amount of imperfections in the line -- like a natural human voice. Even if I could take a straight line and 'rough it up' with some tool, it would help.



I'm SURE that someone out there has an answer for this dilemma!
Help?
- Dana
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby Radiogal » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:49 am

My post doubled up.. can´t delete it so I write something else here. :woohoo:

Read below :)
Last edited by Radiogal on Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby Radiogal » Thu Nov 24, 2011 4:50 am

Long time happy DP pitch user here :)

I recently read somewhere about Melodyne that it´s not recommended to merge nor bounce offline coz it will give artifacts like clicks and pops in melodyne processed tracks..

That made me think about DP pitch as I´m having issues with pops, clicks and variable pitching results after merging pitched tracks in DP. These artifacts aren´t there before I´m printing/merging the track(s).

So when reading this about Melodyne it made perfectly sence to me.
As DP PITCH is done In Real Time it can differe a lill bit each time you play it. It´s all CPU based and together with everything else that needs processing it seems to be hard for the processor to do this identical all the time, especially when printing using merge or offline bounce.

So now I´ve changed my way of "bouncing" the pitched tracks to avoid these CPU based artifacts that occur during the offline printing.
My solution to this is to RERECORD the pitched track to BUS O/P to a new Audio Track I/P and record IN REAL TIME while this track is SOLOED!

This way all CPU is used for the pitching process.
You can monitor the process and detect problems immediately.

Since I´ve started using this procedure i haven´t yet had any problems with these artifacts anymore :)

The process might take some extra time but is totally worth it.
A/B check and you´ll hear the difference.

Just my 2 cents :)
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Re: DP: Tuning Vocals Using DP's Pitch Automation

Postby dpg4macman » Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:42 am

I use and enjoy DP's pitch correction often for backing vocal tracks. I use Melodyne Editor when surgery is required. They both do what they do well.

: )
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