Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humanize?

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EvanEvans
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Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humanize?

Post by EvanEvans »

Wondering if anybody knowledgeable could lead me to some URLs where more MIDI plugins for DP have been programmed and exist for download. I'm talking about extending to the MIDI plugins such as the supplied defaults: Arpeggiator, Change Duration, Change Velocity, DeFlam, Echo, Groove Quantize, Humanize, Invert Pitch, Quantize, Reassign Continuous Data, Remove Duplicates, Time Shift, Transpose

From the following page: http://motu.com/products/software/performer/plugz.html
"Many more MIDI plug-ins are on the way - from MOTU and third-party developers. You'll be able to download them from this web site. Best of all, Performer's MIDI plug-in format is an open architecture, and our developer kit is available to any third party who wants to write plug-ins for Performer. Got programming chops? Contact Mark of the Unicorn if you are interested."
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daniel.sneed
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by daniel.sneed »

IMHO, Motu could improve DP real time MIDI effects.
I sent some suggestions a while back. No results till today.
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by stubbsonic »

It would be cool if DP did build some new or expanded versions of their MIDI insert plugs. There's room for growth. I didn't know that it was open with a developer kit available.

There are some problems with DPs handling of MIDI and MIDI editing-- some serious, some profoundly annoying (YMMV). I'd like to see those things 1. acknowledged and 2. fixed, before working on more MIDI plugins. (That's another topic).

What kind of processes are you looking for? I wonder if something like Numerology would extend DPs capabilities?
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cuttime
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by cuttime »

EvanEvans wrote: From the following page: http://motu.com/products/software/performer/plugz.html
"Many more MIDI plug-ins are on the way - from MOTU and third-party developers.
This was for Performer 6! :shock: I was still asking about this around for DP 4, as I think that exact same quote was in the DP4 manual. Let's just say I wouldn't be holding my breath.
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philbrown
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by philbrown »

DP's MIDI plugs aren't a spec'd thing like AU audio plugs (not that I know of anyway) so it's a proprietary thing unless they deem otherwise and make it open source or something. I suggested several times years ago that this area of DP could be significantly improved in a lot of ways, not the least of which to apply some decent GUI's to them. Whenever I brought these suggestions up earlier here you could hear crickets chirping. I'm like "Really? Only me?" So I'm glad to see this thread and some interest. Piling on every revision with stomp box emulations is fine, but I'd much prefer what's being discussed here.

How about a new automatable arpeggiator with a nice interface like this:

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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by dewdman42 »

Dp’s MIDI plugins are MAS format which is entirely unique to motu. It’s possible to obtain an SDK for this by writing to motu but there absolutely no third party development support from say, JUCE, or other frameworks that typically make it pretty easy to write vst and au plug-ins.

The end result of this is that in ten or more years I have been waiting for more MIDI plugins for DP, none have come, certainly none from third parties; and probably never will unless DP is updated to support au and vst MIDI plugins in the MIDI plugin slot.

There is a ray of hope though because the good news is that DP does fully support MIDI output from au and vst instrument plugins, so by setting up the right bundles and routing the MIDI around you can usually accomplish what you want, it’s actually far easier to do that sort of stuff in DP then it is in say Logic which still has brain dead MIDI routing.

But as far as the actual midifx plugin slot in DP, you get what you get from MOTU, there is nothing else.

Another thing Dp could do would be put a scripter plugin in there so that we can script our own custom tasks, but again don’t hold your breath
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menright
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by menright »

Interesting discussion! One thing I could really use (aside from that nice-looking arpeggiation editor posted above) is a way to turn my automated arpeggiations into editable MIDI data. I've wanted this for a very long time!

Or maybe there is some way to already do this?
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by dewdman42 »

  1. Create an instrument track to host the AU/VST instrument that is able to output MIDI
  2. put your instrument there and get it setup for output MIDI
  3. Create a destination MIDI track.
  4. Enable multi-record from the studio menu
  5. On the destination MIDI track, configure the input MIDI, you will see the name of your plugin and some output MIDI ports/channels to choose from. (note as of right now there are some bugs in DP that will show various duplicate MIDI ports...and only one of them is the correct one. Use the MIDI monitor figure out which one of them is actually outputing the MIDI from your plugin and then configure that one here on the input to the MIDI track.
  6. record enable the MIDI track and record.
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bayswater
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by bayswater »

dewdman42 wrote:Dp’s MIDI plugins are MAS format which is entirely unique to motu. It’s possible to obtain an SDK for this by writing to motu but there absolutely no third party development support from say, JUCE, or other frameworks that typically make it pretty easy to write vst and au plug-ins.

The end result of this is that in ten or more years I have been waiting for more MIDI plugins for DP, none have come, certainly none from third parties; and probably never will unless DP is updated to support au and vst MIDI plugins in the MIDI plugin slot.

There is a ray of hope though because the good news is that DP does fully support MIDI output from au and vst instrument plugins, so by setting up the right bundles and routing the MIDI around you can usually accomplish what you want, it’s actually far easier to do that sort of stuff in DP then it is in say Logic which still has brain dead MIDI routing.
I didn't know MAS and MIDI had anything to do with each other. Isn't MAS all about audio? How does it interact with MIDI?
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by dewdman42 »

MAS is motu's proprietary plugin framework. Does it include MIDI? I would assume so. Years ago I wrote to them for the sdk for the purpose of writing MIDI plugins and they sent it to me. Its out dated now due to changes in carbon, etc and I never got around to writing anything.

What is important to this discussion is that there are no other MIDI plugins from motu or 3rd parties that can be hosted in that MIDI plugin slot because the plugins have to be in motu's proprietary format...I assume MAS..if not whatever it is..that's what they have to be.
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cuttime
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by cuttime »

menright wrote:Interesting discussion! One thing I could really use (aside from that nice-looking arpeggiation editor posted above) is a way to turn my automated arpeggiations into editable MIDI data. I've wanted this for a very long time!

Or maybe there is some way to already do this?
Here's a pretty nifty arpeggiator that works in DP's instrument tracks. It's not bad looking, either.
http://www.mucoder.net/en/hypercyclic/
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bayswater
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by bayswater »

Yes, I got the point that you are interested in MIDI plugins, or the lack of them. I guess they're not that sought after. Logic introduced them a while ago and there was not much reaction there.
dewdman42 wrote:MAS is motu's proprietary plugin framework. Does it include MIDI? I would assume so.
MAS = MOTU Audio System, so I assumed it doesn't include MIDI. You can turn MAS off, and MIDI still works, and MIDI plugins can still be instantiated.

As a workaround to third party MIDI processing that is not MOTU compatible, perhaps we could use IAC MIDI. Someone here pointed out a long time ago, that if you use the same IAC channel as output on one track and input on another, it act like an external loop. If you have another MIDI host looking at that channel, with a MIDI processor on it, might work. You should be able to record the MIDI output of a plugin that way too. Worth a try?
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by dewdman42 »

MAS is also a proprietary plugin format created by MOTU. And by the way, MAS instrument plugins do have to process MIDI so its obviously not exclusive to audio in terms of the SDK involved for creating MOTU proprietary plugins.

As stated already, the plugins in DP MIDI slot cannot be AU or VST, they have to be built using proprietary SDK from MOTU as a plugin that can only work in MOTU. On the link provided by the OP, there is a link for emailing MOTU for further inquiry, but I will point out this page is very old.

As stated previously, whatever comes with DP is all there is in terms of MIDI plugins.
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by dewdman42 »

And ps, you don't need to mess around with IAC. There are many VST MIDI plugins that can run just fine in DP as an instrument. Then the MIDI output shows up as an available MIDI input source to other MIDI tracks.
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Re: Where can I find more MIDI Insert "plug-ins" like Humani

Post by bayswater »

dewdman42 wrote:And ps, you don't need to mess around with IAC. There are many VST MIDI plugins that can run just fine in DP as an instrument. Then the MIDI output shows up as an available MIDI input source to other MIDI tracks.
That adds to my confusion. How do you instantiate a VST plugin on a MIDI channel? Are we even talking about the same thing? I'm thinking of MIDI plugins as opposed to Audio plugins: the things that appear in the the drop down menu on the insert slots on a MIDI channel. Different from the things that appear in the inserts of an audio channel.
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