Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

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toro
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Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

Any MD´s out there or playback redundant rig operators with Motu hardware and DP software ?

I´m building a playback rig with DP9 software, two MacBooks, two Ultralite AVBs, Micro Express and need some knowledge or support if possible.


Thanks
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by HCMarkus »

You need this or something similar:

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SW8
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kwiz
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by kwiz »

toro wrote:Any MD´s out there or playback redundant rig operators with Motu hardware and DP software ?

I´m building a playback rig with DP9 software, two MacBooks, two Ultralite AVBs, Micro Express and need some knowledge or support if possible.


Thanks
I'm a audio programmer/playback engineer. How can I help you?
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toro
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

Thanks for replying.

1) I have AVB Ultralite interfaces for each MacBook sending 8 channels PLB out. The Micro Express synchronises through MTC both laptops and i use the SMPTE OUT channel to go into the Radial SW8 which controls through the threshold the signal flow from the laptops. I was now asked to send an additional SMPTE signal out of DP9 to provide video informations. So I I can split the SMPTE signal in the AVB mixer ? But through which channel do I send the signal out of the interface ? SMPTE Out and all 8 audio line outputs are already blocked. Would the phones output work ?

2) In case I would like to send all my PLB signals via MADI through my M64 but not skip the SW8 ?
Any idea how that could work ? My chain is: DP9 into AVB UltraLite > going into SW8 and from there the outputs would need to find a way into the M64 ?

Hope that makes sense somehow ... Thanks
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kwiz
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by kwiz »

To simplify things, I'd just use a Y cable to split the SMPTE out channel to the SW8, and to video.
As far as the M64 goes, how are you getting audio to it, light pipe?
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't understand why you would want to do that if you don't have a dedicated MADI switcher.
Great family and friends!

Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
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toro
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

Thanks! The Y cabel works perfectly. In fact I was asked if I could "spare" another SMPTE signal to be send to the video wall. Perfect solution. So one SMPTe signal controls the SW8 now and the other goes out to the video guys.
Now I'm thinking how I can make also the video signal redundant, since my outgoing feed is coming out of my main laptop. In case he collapses my backup laptop would run the playbacks but not feed the video signal (My backup laptop gets the SMPTE signal on a line input from of the Micro Express SMPTE out). Mhhh ... ???

Probably my question about the M64 wasn't well thought by me. I just wanted to figure out if it`s possible to keep the redundancy with the SW8 switcher and instead of going with the Outputs of the SW8 into the stage box, go back into another audio (in) device an the somehow send all the Playbacks via MADI or digitally (in order to avoid the stage boxes). Just a thought. Some countries we are running into have monitor and FOH desks which are equipped with MADI (or Dante cards).

Last question: My Micro Express coordinates both laptops via MTC but power comes from the USB port. In case the main laptop collapses completely, power is gone also, I think. Does it makes sense to switch to the MIDI Express Xt which has a power supply ? Thanks again.
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by kwiz »

toro wrote: Last question: My Micro Express coordinates both laptops via MTC but power comes from the USB port. In case the main laptop collapses completely, power is gone also, I think. Does it makes sense to switch to the MIDI Express Xt which has a power supply ? Thanks again.
Hey Toro,

Sorry I'm just getting back to you. I use 2 micro lites (1 for each computer)
In your case, even if you had a powered version, the Micro Express would still be connected via USB to the computer that is down. In that situation, you still won't have functionality until you connect it to the computer that is working, and if you're in a playback situation, that can potentially cause problems. How are you starting your playback; via MIDI controller?
Great family and friends!

Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader

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toro
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

Hey Kwiz, thanks no worries. I found a way to keep the Micro Express powered (in case the laptop goes down) with a Y-USB Splitter cable. One side goes to the laptop, the other one is power.
Yes, i have to "manage" DP on stage through a Yamaha DTX Multipad. Being a drummer, playing and controlling the system gets a little bit tricky (pedal feels weird) especially jumping in an out into "open" sections.
By the way I found a way how to keep redundancy but sending all signals at the end of the chain via MADI to the monitor and FOH desk.
Am I allowed to say this here in the forum ? Got some advices about the forum rules ??!!
It thought it would be allowed to share ideas and informations here ...
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by kwiz »

toro wrote:Hey Kwiz, thanks no worries. I found a way to keep the Micro Express powered (in case the laptop goes down) with a Y-USB Splitter cable. One side goes to the laptop, the other one is power.
Yes, i have to "manage" DP on stage through a Yamaha DTX Multipad. Being a drummer, playing and controlling the system gets a little bit tricky (pedal feels weird) especially jumping in an out into "open" sections.
By the way I found a way how to keep redundancy but sending all signals at the end of the chain via MADI to the monitor and FOH desk.
Am I allowed to say this here in the forum ? Got some advices about the forum rules ??!!
It thought it would be allowed to share ideas and informations here ...
All good, glad you worked it out! The forum is here to help us all, so as long as it's related to MOTU, it's fine to post here for help etc.. With that said, depending on the subject matter, sometimes James the moderator and forum creator will move it into another part of the forum that is more suited for the subject matter.
Happy gigging!
Great family and friends!

Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader

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toro
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

Hey Kwiz, belated thank you for you help in this forum. Loads of sleepless nights, but production rehearsals ended today and the Playback Rig runs! I finally then decided to go out of the SW8 back into Motu 8a interface and send from there through the AVB channels everything via the M64 via MADI out to the desks. Again, thanks for your precious advises, I hope there is a way to keep in touch!
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by magicd »

Just saw this thread. I wanted to note that Kwiz was a guest of MOTU at the NAMM show this year. Don't let his modesty fool you. Kwiz is one of the top playback engineers (among many other talents) in the biz. I am just totally impressed that new MOTU users can come to this forum and receive the level of expertise that someone like Kwiz can offer.

So thank you Kwiz, thank you James, and thank you to all contributors.

Oh, and just to tease you a bit, Pete Townsend is a member here also (shan't give away his screen name) and I've seen him answer questions for newbies and pros alike. Cool, eh?

Dave
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by kwiz »

magicd wrote:Just saw this thread. I wanted to note that Kwiz was a guest of MOTU at the NAMM show this year. Don't let his modesty fool you. Kwiz is one of the top playback engineers (among many other talents) in the biz. I am just totally impressed that new MOTU users can come to this forum and receive the level of expertise that someone like Kwiz can offer.

So thank you Kwiz, thank you James, and thank you to all contributors.

Oh, and just to tease you a bit, Pete Townsend is a member here also (shan't give away his screen name) and I've seen him answer questions for newbies and pros alike. Cool, eh?

Dave
Toro, glad everything is working out well for you. Glad to help!

Dave, thanks so much for the kind words. It was a complete pleasure to work with you at NAMM!!
Your advise and direction has helped me countless times over the years; you are truly the guru of MOTU!! 8) 8)
Also, it's cool that Pete Townsend peeks in on this forum! 8)
I might've unknowingly gotten from tips from him as well. :lol:
Great family and friends!

Mac Studio M2 Max, MacPro 8 core (trashcan), MacBook Pro 16 in 2023, OSX Ventura, DP 11, Pro Tools, Logic Pro X, Motu 112D, 24Ao, 8M, 896 MKIII, UA Apollo 16, Waves Horizon, Slate Everything Bundle, Plugin Alliance Bundle, UAD-2 Satellite DSP Accelerator, UAD Apollo Twin.
Native Instruments Komplete 14 Ultimate, Console 1 MKIII w/C1 Fader

"Without struggle, there is no progress"

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toro
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

I´m absolutely speechless about having such incredible expertise and I'm deeply grateful for that.
I honestly admit to not always know who is behind the names, apologies for that, but again: Thank YOU!
I just came off the first show and everything went absolutely smooth. We are the first band and production in Germany using this system. No one did before. I took the risk because I felt the guys of MOTU here in Germany where truly supportive 24/7. I still have to learn a lot but a starting point has been made. If I could have a wish ? Please if you guys are on tour over here in Europe, I would love to meet you! Thanks again!
Jigsaw
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by Jigsaw »

Toro, aka the Italian stallion :lol:

I'm so happy too, that your system is working rock solid. As the German MOTU man I mentioned the incredible live options in DP since many years in my demos and shows - but I've never seen it in reality.
Last September I had the chance to visit one of our customers backstage with one of the biggest rock bands in Germany. He works as a MD and uses 4x 16A AVB interfaces for playback all backing and klick tracks - with just one (!!!) Computer!

This was the moment when I decided to built my own MOTU/Radial redundant system.
My good friend Magic Dave told me that almost all big live productions in the US are running with a MOTU/Radial redundant system - so now it's time for Germany.

What should I say - everything is working as expected. And I'm sure, Toro ist just the beginning. I'm looking forward to Musikmesse Frankfurt - this system will be in focus on our booth.

I'm so proud to be a member of the MOTU family!

Michael Voss
-MOTU Support-
Klemm Music Technology
toro
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Re: Redundant Playback System with DP9 and Motu Interfaces

Post by toro »

Thanks gentlemen for sharing your knowledge!

Here are three reflections (more thought as questions) after the last 4 weeks of touring:

1) Every time I start a chunk the relay contact of the SW8 opens (switching from >B to <A).
This procedure creates a short but hearable "Clack" in the PA and monitor system.
Does that sound familiar to anybody and what could be a way to avoid that ?

2) In some occasions when I start a chunk all of a sudden I have some digital noise on all the channels. It felt like a "power wave" bumping into the files, but only on the main laptop. I had then to turn the main system down and restart it completely to have it finally gone. We tried to get power from different sources (always using power stabilizer) but none really helped. Any advices on how maybe power supply has to be disposed ?

3) It once happened that my main system loosing contact to the interface and everything stopped, including the backup system because running with MMC. (I might overthink the MMC function and just start both systems via MIDI note). I have to say that on particular night the stage was horribly bumpy and I felt the laptops (and connections) suffered under that. Not sure if that was the reason, but are there any reasons why DP should loose contact to the interfaces beside USB connections malfunctions ?

Over here in Europe it`s easter sunday = a holiday. So "Happy Easter" to everybody!
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