capture 'song' as soundbite?

[EMRR]

So far I'm not finding a method for this one in the manual.

I have a 'song' which is a theater production playlist of various sequences containing audio soundbite mixes. As a song made up sequences/chunks, I'd like to print a mix of the entire thing within DP so there's a master audio file of playback elements to import into a video editor along with captured ambience and voice tracks from the production, but don't see an obvious way to do this. Can't apparently create a capture sequence within a song? Is this a Polar job? Drop all the existing sequence mixes in a new sequence, use adjusted timecode start points from song to auto align? I see several paths, but am pretty sure I'm missing the most automatic choice. What do you film/TV/theater guys do? I'm usually just a straight pop music slob.

[EMRR]

Another Song observation, in this case, possibly a bug. Maybe there's a reason. Theater playback turned out to be mono ceiling speakers. I enabled mono fold down on the master track in each sequence, and it plays as such when in the sequence. When in the Song chunk, they still play as stereo. I ended up having to manually recenter all pans in each sequence, sizable manual labor.

[stubbsonic]

I have no experience with this, but could you put a parallel chunk in the Song editor graphic window that runs along the whole length of the song- and add an input track there that runs through the entire thing?

[EMRR]

hmm, that's not a bad thought, if allowed.

[mikehalloran]

Not understanding why you wouldn't use BTD to create your mono files. Export them to a separate folder and reload into a new project that just contains your cues.

[EMRR]

Because this was a fast moving 'workshop' presentation, and I was actively mixing for the room through rehearsals. There were several sets of varying information to playback, depending on specifics of the moment, and there were some cold-start vocal cues that had to come from playback, with performers jumping in slightly later, version without vocal to playback, version with vocal to playback, constant adjustments right up to public performance.

But outside of that, why would that mono fold down not work in this mode? Seems it should.

Not understanding why you wouldn't use BTD to create your mono files. Export them to a separate folder and reload into a new project that just contains your cues.

[EMRR]

I have no experience with this, but could you put a parallel chunk in the Song editor graphic window that runs along the whole length of the song- and add an input track there that runs through the entire thing?

That doesn't work because you can't apparently have an input enabled in a chunk within a song window. As soon as the song is selected, the record enabled input disappears.

Using POLAR appears to be the best option, works fine.


I think I've found a Song bug, or maybe someone can tell me why it's NOT a bug, or what setting I'm missing:

10 sequences.
3 stereo efx sends and returns per sequence, all the same busses - 1-2, 3-4, 5-6.
6 sequences get used in a song. When the song is played, all 10 sequence instances of those returns output sound in the song, multiplying the result of the efx return intent 10x. Note that's 4 sequences worth of returns that aren't even part of the song, and automating the returns to be off outside the bounds of the individual sequences didn't help either.

The only way I'm finding around this is to use totally different efx busses for every instance in a project.

To be extra clear, if you play the individual sequences, this multiplication doesn't occur. Which means you can't rely entirely on a sequence template, you would still need to change the efx buss routings.


I'm starting to think for my purposes it may make more sense to use clippings to combine all the individual sequences into a combined master sequence, rather than use the Song window. Especially in regards to moving pieces in time later.

[EMRR]

So.....which part(s) are confusing or idiotic?

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Because this was a fast moving 'workshop' presentation, and I was actively mixing for the room through rehearsals.

So.....which part(s) are confusing or idiotic?

If you're talking about trying to accomplish a decent mix of multiple audio elements in rehearsal (or during breaks) than that is the idiotic part, for sure. Some things take time, patience, and planning. As they say in LA, pick two of the three: good, fast, cheap. You can never get all three, so if your goal is to create a decent quality audio mix of multiple elements for use in picture as rehearsals or performances are in progress, then you're gonna need a second system and an assistant or two.

It begs the question as to why you need a mix that quickly. That may well be a valid question, but the response might not be "do it this way in DP." I would suspect that all viable answers would suggest multiple computer systems, regardless of which DAW(s) you are using.

If you are asking if there is a way to have a single sequence that bounces for export to video, the answer is yes. Create a "master sequence" where you'll import all rendered MIDI and audio elements into individual tracks. V-racks and other VIs should be shut off to conserve CPU resources. Better yet, do all this in a new project file. Then mix that down to a stereo mix to sync to picture, unless you're doing surround, which is a whole other thing.

Song mode is not useful for mixing or mastering. It's used for song structure and arrangement. Songs (as defined by DP) should not be used as a mastering 'venue,' especially when creating audio for picture. I rarely use song mode. It has some interesting uses, like flattening a MIDI performance from multiple MIDI chunks into new linear tracks that contain, and even join, individual instruments from several chunks into new, individual, but continuous, tracks. Very useful for (take a guess...) bouncing to disk for mastering.

This thread started in Dec '17. You recently revived it in July and, lacking any answers, bumped it up today, so I am assuming you are continuing to try and use song mode in creating a decent exportable audio mix. If I got that wrong, please tell me what I'm missing.

If I got that right, I'd suggest you change your Rx and start using master sequences of just audio to export to a picture editor, or get the people and machines required to do what TV stations still find challenging at times. IOW, from what I gather from the initial questions, you don't need to understand song mode; you need a control room.

[EMRR]

If you're talking about trying to accomplish a decent mix of multiple audio elements in rehearsal (or during breaks) than that is the idiotic part, for sure. Some things take time, patience, and planning. As they say in LA, pick two of the three: good, fast, cheap. You can never get all three, so if your goal is to create a decent quality audio mix of multiple elements for use in picture as rehearsals or performances are in progress, then you're gonna need a second system and an assistant or two.

It begs the question as to why you need a mix that quickly. That may well be a valid question, but the response might not be "do it this way in DP." I would suspect that all viable answers would suggest multiple computer systems, regardless of which DAW(s) you are using.

Definitely not the question, and you quoted my answer already. Workshop performance. Not for picture, outside of combining the live vocals back with the music beds for inclusion on the archive video of the public performance. "Can you turn this off? That off? Turn it back on? Move that part 10 seconds?" Had to be an active mix through the workshopping rehearsal portion. It can be built out in understanding to know there was a budget of $2000 to pay for six days time with a room and 10 people working, practically volunteerism. The actors barely knew their parts by the public performance. I was managing all the wireless mics and the PA too.....everyone wants to get paid, which necessarily excludes a whole host of people who might come on board to make 'quality' work with simplified team roles.

Anyway, sorta off topic, but the idea was to advance to a second stage arts council grant to move it further down the line.

If you are asking if there is a way to have a single sequence that bounces for export to video, the answer is yes. Create a "master sequence" where you'll import all rendered MIDI and audio elements into individual tracks. V-racks and other VIs should be shut off to conserve CPU resources. Better yet, do all this in a new project file. Then mix that down to a stereo mix to sync to picture, unless you're doing surround, which is a whole other thing.

I was leaning toward 'master sequence', but my definition may be different from yours. There's no MIDI, V-racks, or VI's, just recorded audio. I work mostly in music recording, putting microphones in front of live performers, starting with templates that cover the expected bases, capturing their songs in individual sequences which must live apart from one another so mix work per part can begin as soon as the first playback occurs without affecting balance of different performances that might otherwise live comfortably within a single sequence. (setting a record with that run-on sentence possibly).

This thing started as a music recording with a dozen or so distinct sequences, some of which were eventually combined into medleys of 2 or 3 pieces (funny I can't call them songs, as that's confusing with DP parlance in the context) for the recorded version. As it progressed to the first performance the DP session was cloned and streamlined, all extraneous bits removed. As it progresses to this years performance, adjustments are being made, and this is where I discover the crazy EFX bus behavior in the song window. Why wasn't it noticed last fall? The reverbs are predominantly on the recorded vocals that were only used occasionally in rehearsal to remind performers of phrasing or structure. If I noticed it at all, it was forgotten, but likely obscured by the poor performance room acoustics.

Song mode is not useful for mixing or mastering. It's used for song structure and arrangement.

Ding ding ding....1st good answer on that question. I've no use for it at all in that regard as typically done, so I probably never have any use for it. I am trying to use it for the relative structure of recorded auction sequences as they relate to one another, and it's horribly cumbersome, on top of apparently buggy in the combo I've forced on it.

Songs (as defined by DP) should not be used as a mastering 'venue,' especially when creating audio for picture. I rarely use song mode. It has some interesting uses, like flattening a MIDI performance from multiple MIDI chunks into new linear tracks that contain, and even join, individual instruments from several chunks into new, individual, but continuous, tracks. Very useful for (take a guess...) bouncing to disk for mastering.

This thread started in Dec '17. You recently revived it in July and, lacking any answers, bumped it up today, so I am assuming you are continuing to try and use song mode in creating a decent exportable audio mix. If I got that wrong, please tell me what I'm missing.

I did get an exported audio mix, which had to be reassembled. I thought it strange there wasn't an easier method, but as you say it's not apparently designed to be used in the way I've attempted. Polar works fine, and you'd think that might be a fact that would make it's way into the manual, or be easily found in discussions about song mode around here. If it's in either, it's not shown itself to me.

If I got that right, I'd suggest you change your Rx and start using master sequences of just audio to export to a picture editor, or get the people and machines required to do what TV stations still find challenging at times. IOW, from what I gather from the initial questions, you don't need to understand song mode; you need a control room.

You got it, and are confirming that my next move is to abandon Song and restructure through combining sequences. Thanks. It is telling on some level, not sure what, that it's not been answered in all this time, surely other users must encounter these questions. Polar is the answer to the 'Song' real time print (because I run an analog hardware control room), so if song worked for someone else's methods, it's a quick way to get it done.

I always have to remind myself I'm odd man out using DP without MIDI, VI's, and staying within the realm of real time reference rather than measures. Remembering that is a good first position in troubleshooting or reading between the lines in the manual. Don't here suggest another DAW, this one works great, it's just a different way of thinking. Virtual composition structure is so assumed in the way the manuals are written, there are really no warnings about things that don't work (or are extremely cumbersome) with non-metronomed human timing recorded audio that ventured through air into microphones.

So....back to the remaining questions:

1) Why doesn't mono fold-down in a sequence work once played from the context of a song?

2) Why do busses misbehave in the same context?

Are those bugs, or do they make sense from the designers perspective? They look like bugs from the way I've combined the modules within DP.

I suppose it doesn't matter, as I'll abandon the approach. But I am curious.

Thanks