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Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelCompress

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Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelCompress

Postby FMiguelez » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:54 am

Hello.

Yes, it obviously depends on what I want to achieve, but is there a "best practice" related to this?
I realize the main reason to do NY compression (parallel compression) is to augment the sustain part of the drums signal (as opposed to the attack part), so they sound beefier. I'm using a very fast attack and release to avoid attack on this bus.

I'm using drum VIs, but we can pretend as if it were a REAL drummer recording, since I'm using Toontrack's Superior Drummer.

For instance, if I send any hi-hats or cymbals, they pump and tend to sound fizzy and the hight signal seems to dance around. I don't think I like this very much.

Right now I'm sending only all the dry skins, the OHs and the Far Ambience mics. Once this signal is in the NY compression bus, I'm compressing it like crazy, with fast attack.
Is this a typical usage?
Any style-related caveats or tips?

I'm getting good results, but I wonder if there are any no-nos, do's or don'ts, tips, things to try/mind, etc.

Also, I'm getting nice results compressing like MAD one of the Ambience mics. It even sounds distorted, but I'm digging this sound! It sounds aggressive and huge!

Thank you for any input or comments about this.
Last edited by FMiguelez on Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY compression bus??

Postby mhschmieder » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:38 am

What is NY compression? Is this a particular technique in wide practice in Manhattan?

I'm at a loss to provide feedback without understanding the terminology at play here.
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY compression bus??

Postby FMiguelez » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:25 pm

Except for some minor details I don't know about, NY compression is supposed to be exactly the same as parallel compression.

I've been seeing people calling it that a lot lately. Maybe it's a "kool kid" term or something? :mrgreen:

I'll edit my thread title. Perhaps it's an unnecessarily confusing term.
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby mhschmieder » Fri Nov 24, 2017 1:52 pm

No; my fault -- I simply hadn't heard that term before, so thought maybe you were referring to something specific to Superior Drummer as the default kits are NY Kits as I recall.

I'll look it up a bit later when I am not multi-tasking and can thus concentrate better on absorbing something new, and see if I have any ideas. And if not, this is a chance for me to learn as well. :-)
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby philbrown » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:47 am

I have no idea if this is legit, but seems like it's describing what you want:
http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/quick-tip-punchier-drums-with-the-new-york-compression-trick--audio-12885
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby apanacci » Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:17 pm

I send the whole drum mix to the NY drum buss , then blend in how much I need.
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby FMiguelez » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:12 pm

philbrown wrote:I have no idea if this is legit, but seems like it's describing what you want:
http://music.tutsplus.com/tutorials/quick-tip-punchier-drums-with-the-new-york-compression-trick--audio-12885

Thanks for the link, Phil.

I'll watch it as soon as I finish downloading yesterday's shopping spree. My internet connection can barely keep up with this text-based forum ATM :)

mhschmieder wrote:I'll look it up a bit later when I am not multi-tasking and can thus concentrate better on absorbing something new, and see if I have any ideas. And if not, this is a chance for me to learn as well. :-)

That's the spirit, my friend! :)

apanacci wrote:I send the whole drum mix to the NY drum buss , then blend in how much I need.


Do you do anything in particular to the cymbals? I guess that's the thing that has been bothering me. I've tried it, and it sounds great, it really beefs up the drums and everything, but if there's cymbal signal in there, then it seems to pump too much, and it even dances around the stereo stage.
I've seen people even digging that sound. As if it is THE sound of this technique.
So I suppose my real question is> Is that cymbal HF pumping PART of the expected sound of parallel/NY compression?

I've been going out of my way to avoid just that. I don't know if it's worth the effort... and perhaps that has been preventing me from attaining a "True" (TM) parallel compression sound?
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby kwiz » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:37 pm

FMiguelez wrote:Do you do anything in particular to the cymbals? I guess that's the thing that has been bothering me. I've tried it, and it sounds great, it really beefs up the drums and everything, but if there's cymbal signal in there, then it seems to pump too much, and it even dances around the stereo stage.
I've seen people even digging that sound. As if it is THE sound of this technique.
So I suppose my real question is> Is that cymbal HF pumping PART of the expected sound of parallel/NY compression?

I've been going out of my way to avoid just that. I don't know if it's worth the effort... and perhaps that has been preventing me from attaining a "True" (TM) parallel compression sound?


The best way to handle cymbals in your case would be to send the individual drums to your NY bus including cymbals. That way you can slam the NY bus with the drums, and dial back on the cymbal levels going to the NY bus. Gives you much more control that way...
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby HCMarkus » Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:27 pm

I do it the way Kwiz suggests... sends for each drum track or VI kit piece. For live drums, leakage from cymbals into snare mic is often more than enough when the snare is slammed hard with compression; gating/expansion can be used on snare to isolate from cymbals and hat if desired.

I've been using a few Soundtoys plugs on the compressed bus lately... Devil-Loc smashes into oblivion, but in a good way. Little Radiator provides distortion without the compression if this is what's needed.
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby mhschmieder » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:51 pm

OK, I've read the linked article and now realize that I had read about this in Oswinski's books previously, but had been too lazy to do the parallel routing and merge so mostly focused on the overall goals with the main drum stems and busses.

My feeling about the cymbals is that the spot mics probably should not be included in this, as it might be too difficult to avoid phasing artifacts. I only spot mic the ride and hi-hats anyway, and pull those WAY down in the mix.

It would be interesting to see whether the NY Compression technique would get enough of the "cut" of the ride and/or hi-hats from how the bleed in other mics and OH's turns out, that there'd be no need for spot-miking either one anymore.

I use ribbon mics on both. Beyerdynamic's unique hypercardioid pattern mics, which are also the smallest diaphragm ribbons on the market. M160 and M260. The ribbons also keep the timbre similar to what the OH's pick up, which helps downstream after compression and EQ processing.

Although I do make some use of parallel compression, it is usually further down the mixing chain, on final buss combined stems, and usually in plug-ins that have their own internal parallel buss.
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Re: Which drum mics to send to the NY comp bus? ParallelComp

Postby Robby in WA » Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:16 am

NY Compression is the old school way of saying Parallel Compression. It used to be that you had to assist and beg little tidbits of info out the guys that knew what they were doing. Now with the interwebs, all that info is out there. I digress...

Check out some vids by Andrew Scheps. IMHO he's the master at this.

Here's what I do: Kick and Snare each get their own compressors (modded Drawmer DL241) blended back in with their original signals. Whole kit gets another (more crushed - UBK Fatso)) blended back. A dip ~ 4.5k or a de-esser on the OHs helps with the cymbal harshness. I use Coles 4038s (Glynn Johns variation) on OHs; ribbons do help. I usually have another mic (u47) about three ft in front of the kit that gets crushed w/the Fatso at tracking. Room mics get 1176 treatment separate from the rest. It's all about blending back in. What's cool is on choruses, or more dense parts of the song, you can bring up the crushed tracks to add more excitement.
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