Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

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yamguitar
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Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by yamguitar »

I spent some time last night and this morning making the transition to OS 10.13, which included updating my external drives to the new file system, APFS. Mostly painless, with a few caveats:
  • • I have indeed been experiencing the DP authorization issue mentioned here; DP seemed to run normally once I put in my keycode, but appears to "forget" the authorization again after a reboot.
    • CueMix FX booted up with no window visible and most options unavailable. A reinstall via the MOTU Audio Installer seems to have solved the problem.
    • Reason's in-app update also failed repeatedly, not sure why; had to download the update directly from their site.
    • One external drive initially resisted the transition to APFS, until I marked it to ignore ownership on that volume.
So far everything seems copacetic... further updates as events warrant.
4 GHz Intel Core i7 iMac Retina 5K, 32GB RAM, OS 12.6.8MOTU M6DP 11.22, Reason 12.6.1, Dorico Elements 5.0.2
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mikehalloran
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by mikehalloran »

Turns out that, when I upgraded my test drive, I didn’t convert to APFS. Some directions I found to correct that in Disk Utility don’t work so I’m reinstalling. I may not enable it if certain apps don’t work. Testing...
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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bayswater
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by bayswater »

I'm holding off for a bit. I use a lot file sharing and screen sharing across a number of newer and older Macs. It's unclear what drives on what systems would still be accessible from other systems, and in what direction (pre HS from HS, HS from pre HS). The tech note implies that if I update my MBP to HS, the older Macs and perhaps my Time Capsule won't work with it. It also seems to say that only other Macs on HS regardless of the disk format, would be able to interact with the updated system.

I'm hoping the ability to read older drives from updated systems, and vice versa will be there, or added quickly. Given that I can access ancient windows formatted volumes from all my Macs, it would be odd if I can't access older apple volumes.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
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mikehalloran
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by mikehalloran »

No reason to believe that Time Capsule won’t work but the drives are not supposed to be accessible from older systems. One of the many things I am testing in my spare time.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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bayswater
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by bayswater »

mikehalloran wrote:No reason to believe that Time Capsule won’t work but the drives are not supposed to be accessible from older systems. One of the many things I am testing in my spare time.
Yes, that would be one of the many issues I'd have to understand -- if I update a Mac that uses TC for backup, would the drive in it be modified in some way that makes it inaccessible to other Macs that use it for backups. It's also unclear from what I've seen whether the incompatibility happens only when a disk, like a USB drive, is physically connected, or whether file sharing protocols work across different disk formats as a matter of course, i.e., what OSI layer does file sharing work at? Does the system even know what hardware device is at the other end of a connection or how it is formatted, or does it operate at a higher service layer like IP? All stuff an Apple user should not have to know.
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Gravity Jim
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by Gravity Jim »

I am running the beta Golden Master of OSX 10.13, i.e. "High Sierra," and currently downloading the release version.

When I installed it, it reformatted my Control drive to the new format, but left my Projects, Sample/VIs and Time Machine drives as they were (Apple HFS).

It is not having any trouble accessing any of my drives regardless of format (including a WD 2Tb external spinner I use for local archiving).

So, actually, it is something that Apple users don't have to know. In this regard, OSX remains plug and play.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
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bayswater
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by bayswater »

Thanks Jim. Do you know if your "control" drive can be seen by Macs not using HS via file sharing over a network? The apple support pages suggest that it might not. That's something that would give me problems.
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mikehalloran
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by mikehalloran »

OK, I could read all my older drives including Time Capsule from my test drive formatted APFS. Since Time Capsules have HHDs, you cannot format them APFS. Per Apple, this is not an issue.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT208018

What I cannot do is access my APFS drive from my boot drive which I have yet to update — I can see the drives easily enough but not the Users data on those drives no matter how I try to obtain permissions to do so. They say it can't be done and I believe them. I can access some applications plus any data in the root level Library.

I have posted earlier how to restore Sierra if you need to. If that is a possibility, I would certainly turn TM off before testing High Sierra as that makes the restore process a little easier.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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Gravity Jim
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by Gravity Jim »

Sorry, bayswater, I misunderstood what you were going for. From reading, I would assume not... and while there are other Macs in the building, they never access my drives, so I'm of no help.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
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bayswater
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by bayswater »

Thanks Mike and Jim. Looks like the key qualification posted by Apple is that you can only read a newly formatted drive from another Mac that has been updated to HS. I've been obsolete for a while. Looks like my Macs are going that route too.

"What I cannot do is access my APFS drive from my boot drive which I have yet to update". Are these two separate physical drives, or two partitions on one or more drives -- IOW, does the APFS apply to the hard drive or the partition?
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8
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Gravity Jim
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by Gravity Jim »

BTW, I just converted my other drives (except Time Machine) to APFS, and I'm seeing an instant speed increase in how fast DP loads Projects and VIs... a large enough boost that you don't wonder if it was just imagination. My SSDs are really hauling now.
Jim Bordner

MacPro 5,1 (3.33Ghz 12-core), 32g RAM, OS X 10.14.6 • MOTU DP 10.11 • Logic Pro X 10.2.5 • Waves Platinum, UAD-2, Slate Digital, Komplete, Omnisphere 2, LASS, CineSamples, Chipsounds, V Collection 5[color]
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mikehalloran
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by mikehalloran »

IOW, does the APFS apply to the hard drive or the partition?
Good question. It applies to the drive but I don't know if it can be made to apply to a partition.

I won't know till I update my main drive. Since Office 2008, 2011 and a few other key apps run in 10.13 w/ APFS, I'm likely to do that this evening.

There are a couple of ways to update to APFS after the fact; both use Disk Utility but one wipes your data. You had the choice while installing Beta before the Golden Master.

My test SSD was connected via USB and the installer did not update the drive to APFS. I didn't see the option in Disk Utility (didn't know where to look) so I put the drive in an eSATA dock and reinstalled the OS—this time it worked. You can't undo APFS except to wipe the drive, reformat and reinstall Sierra, then restore from a backup.

The way to test it is to partition a drive, see if the one that you update to High Sierra is the only one updated to APFS by hitting Command-i on the partition. Had I partitioned my test drive first, I could have tried it.

APFS does not work on HHDs or Fusion drives and is not supposed to install on them.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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bayswater
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by bayswater »

mikehalloran wrote: The way to test it is to partition a drive, see if the one that you update to High Sierra is the only one updated to APFS by hitting Command-i on the partition. Had I partitioned my test drive first, I could have tried it.

APFS does not work on HHDs or Fusion drives and is not supposed to install on them.
So far I don't have a lot of SSD drives. But all but one of those I have need to be accessible over a LAN so it's still a bit of a risk. I can't partition the other SSDs I have at the moment so I'll have to wait to see how this evolves.
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mikehalloran
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by mikehalloran »

Preliminary testing... In each case, I tested basic functionality. Open, create, save, play. If there is web functionality, I probably didn't go there. Anything that works with APFS disabled also works with it enabled, of course.

With a couple of exceptions, I had installed all these in Yosemite, updated the SSD to High Sierra without APFS, then enabled APFS.

Works in OS 10.13 High Sierra APFS disabled only:

DP 7.24
FinalDraft 8

Works in OS 10.13 High Sierra APFS enabled:

FinalDraft 9 (also installs)
MasterWriter 2 (11/2012 build) Audio Engine hasn't worked since OS 10.7
Keka.app 1.2
Office 2008 (did not test Outlook)
Office 2011 (did not test Outlook) (installs if installer file is late enough)
Acrobat Pro X
Photoshop Elements 6
DiskLabel 6.1.1
Finances OS X 2.3
Toast Titanium 15.1
DSP-Q 4.4
TwistedWave 1.18.3
Encore 5.0.7 (Same issues and workarounds as Sierra)
SmartScore X2 Pro 10.5.8
Finale NotePad 12
Finale PrintMusic 2014.5
Finale 2014.5 (Movie Window not tested yet)

MakeMusic has discontinued all older Finale products for the Mac citing incompatibility with High Sierra. I suspect installation issues that I did not test. All three Finale products performed for me as they do in Sierra with the same limitations.

DP 9 requires reauthorization if your Mac is rebooted. Keep the Authorization info handy in a convenient Note or Text doc and it saves time—it must be entered the way you registered with MOTU.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
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mikehalloran
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Re: Early Adopter - Now Running High Sierra

Post by mikehalloran »

Installing on a partition converts only that partition to APFS. You can convert and add other partitions in Disk Utility.

Be careful about adding APFS Partitions, though. Removing them leaves APFS Containers that still take up drive space. This is done through a combination of Terminal and Disk Utility. Read up on it first.

https://www.macobserver.com/tips/deep-d ... container/
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
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