How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

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John Froome
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How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by John Froome »

Hi everyone,

I am a French -as my ID doesn't show- new user of DP9, that I bought after watching this on YouTube (it's "classical" music) :
https://youtu.be/0xU-p9wmSqg

, because I've got some music I composed that I'd wish to be "Created, edited and mastered" (as mentioned on the description notes of this video) that way : in Digital Performer using Ivory 2 (Synthogy) sound banks (the video is actually made using DP 5.13 using Ivory 1, but I figured out newer versions could do the job as well). My material consists of MIDI and AIFF files, with the related scores edited with Sibelius 6 :sorry: ; it's acoustic piano only.

I've obviously got the DP User's Guide, but I couldn't find any clear explanation about how to do this in it.

Is there anyone who could help me ?
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by HCMarkus »

A short question with a (potentially) long answer.

Could you describe in more detail what it is you are trying to accomplish?
Are you looking to hire someone to assist you or do you hope to do the job yourself?
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by John Froome »

Hello,

The main goal is to have audio files with a much higher rendition/sound quality than those I already have. I figured out I could use Ivory 2 for the Sound Bank and DP9 for "creating, editing, and mastering", based on the description notes of the video I mentioned in my previous message.

My already existing material consists of MIDI and AIFF files and the related Sibelius 6 scores. I'd rather not rewrite the complete scores on Quickscribe or else if there's a shorter way.

The explanations I need are like : "open this menu, then choose this option" etc, considering it can be interesting to someone other than me.

Hope this helps out
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by FMiguelez »

John Froome wrote:Hello,

The main goal is to have audio files with a much higher rendition/sound quality than those I already have. I figured out I could use Ivory 2 for the Sound Bank and DP9 for "creating, editing, and mastering", based on the description notes of the video I mentioned in my previous message.

My already existing material consists of MIDI and AIFF files and the related Sibelius 6 scores. I'd rather not rewrite the complete scores on Quickscribe or else if there's a shorter way.

The explanations I need are like : "open this menu, then choose this option" etc, considering it can be interesting to someone other than me.

Hope this helps out
Music production does not work like this, I'm afraid.... It's not some kind of recipe that just anyone can blindly follow. This is ART!

I think you will have to do what all of us have had to do: learn music production and read the manuals f all your software.

Now, if you have SPECIFIC questions, that's where we can help. But which menus to open or what commands to use... :rtfm:

Nobody said music production was easy or doable by just anyone. Just like most other disciplines.
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by HCMarkus »

FM is right; people (many of whom hang out here) spend their entire lives learning how to accomplish your goal, which I understand to be a professional quality master recording of your piece. If you want it done quickly and professionally, hire someone. If you want to do it yourself, get to work!
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by John Froome »

Hi there

I don't get it. You say that you know how yo do it but it's too hard to explain ?
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by cuttime »

I'm struggling to make sense of the OP's question, but I'll take a stab...it seems to me you want to freeze your MIDI tracks and convert them to audio:
http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/C ... I-to-Audio
After you have produced high quality audio files you have unlimited mastering options with DP's included plugins, reverb, EQ, etc. Your success in doing so depends on your understanding of what each plug actually does, with a good dose of trial and error. You can then bounce to disc your mastered audio in the quality and format of your choice:
http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/d ... 7427503738
Forgive my over generalizations if I haven't completely understood the original questions.
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by FMiguelez »

John Froome wrote:Hi there

I don't get it. You say that you know how yo do it but it's too hard to explain ?
Yes, I know how to do it very well.
And "explaining" how to do it, all of what you want, would take ages to write. And it has already been written for you in the manuals.

That's why I suggested asking SPECIFIC questions.

It took us years to learn how to write and produce music. What makes you think you can do it by following some kind of recipe and not putting in the necessary effort yourself?

I mean, it seems to me you don't want to be arsed with reading your software's manuals...
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by John Froome »

cuttime wrote:I'm struggling to make sense of the OP's question, but I'll take a stab...it seems to me you want to freeze your MIDI tracks and convert them to audio:
http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/C ... I-to-Audio
After you have produced high quality audio files you have unlimited mastering options with DP's included plugins, reverb, EQ, etc. Your success in doing so depends on your understanding of what each plug actually does, with a good dose of trial and error. You can then bounce to disc your mastered audio in the quality and format of your choice:
http://motu.com/techsupport/technotes/d ... 7427503738
Forgive my over generalizations if I haven't completely understood the original questions.
It's totally based on the video I mentioned on the first post.

I think its loader has written ("created" on his description notes) Bartok's scores on DP, then make Ivory play it ; I can't understand it elseway, since the rendition's really too accurate to be a human one. My point is to do the same with my Sibelius 6 scores (even though mine aren't as rich in dynamics as Bartok's).

I actually managed to create "new DP scores" from my MIDI files (which saves a precious time, though they have to be refined), but the Ivory board doesn't seem to allow any automatic playing of this material, which is quite confusing..?
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by FMiguelez »

The general process of what you want, if I understand correctly, would be something like >

1.- Import your score from Sibelius to DP
2.- Depending on whether you had a tempo map with Sibelious, you might need to create a tempo map with DP if you want to work with accurate measures. If you had one in Sibelius, just put DP in Conductor mode and you're set
3.- Once you have a tempo map, you can tweak it (rallentando, rubato, etc.)
4.- You will also want to edit velocities. You do that with the MIDI Editor (Graphic Editor), or even in QS or SE, since the selection methods and tools are the same, but it's always easier in the GE.
------> You may also use volume automation in certain parts, especially if you want a "warm" sound, using low velocities and increasing the volume work better than banging at them, since that tends to sound harsh and "pingy"
5.- Once you're happy with the performance and interpretation, you can start tweaking the sound of the instrument (EQ, MB compression if necessary, etc.).
6.- Once you're happy, you should print the MIDI to audio
7.- Then you can master your project
8.- After you master it, you bounce (render) it to obtain your finished mastered audio file.

-- 5 through 7 do not require the printed file. It can be done even in the MIDI stage.
-- You'll keep "looping" from 3 to 6, and probably even 3 to 7, and going back and forth between them as needed, until you're happy and ready to bounce.


That is just an example of a typical workflow to what I understand you want to do.

The details as to how to use the tools are in DP's manual, which is easily searchable. But that overview should at least tell you what to look for and a good cohesive workflow to get started.
Mac Mini Server i7 2.66 GHs/16 GB RAM / OSX 10.14 / DP 9.52
Tascam DM-24, MOTU Track 16, all Spectrasonics' stuff,
Vienna Instruments SUPER PACKAGE, Waves Mercury, slaved iMac and Mac Minis running VEP 7, etc.

---------------------------

"In physics the truth is rarely perfectly clear, and that is certainly universally the case in human affairs. Hence, what is not surrounded by uncertainty cannot be the truth." ― Richard Feynman
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by RodneySauer »

FMiguelez wrote:The general process of what you want, if I understand correctly, would be something like >

1.- Import your score from Sibelius to DP
2.- Depending on whether you had a tempo map with Sibelious, you might need to create a tempo map with DP if you want to work with accurate measures. If you had one in Sibelius, just put DP in Conductor mode and you're set
3.- Once you have a tempo map, you can tweak it (rallentando, rubato, etc.)
4.- You will also want to edit velocities. You do that with the MIDI Editor (Graphic Editor), or even in QS or SE, since the selection methods and tools are the same, but it's always easier in the GE.
------> You may also use volume automation in certain parts, especially if you want a "warm" sound, using low velocities and increasing the volume work better than banging at them, since that tends to sound harsh and "pingy"
5.- Once you're happy with the performance and interpretation, you can start tweaking the sound of the instrument (EQ, MB compression if necessary, etc.).
6.- Once you're happy, you should print the MIDI to audio
7.- Then you can master your project
8.- After you master it, you bounce (render) it to obtain your finished mastered audio file.

-- 5 through 7 do not require the printed file. It can be done even in the MIDI stage.
-- You'll keep "looping" from 3 to 6, and probably even 3 to 7, and going back and forth between them as needed, until you're happy and ready to bounce.
I don't use Sibelius, but if it's like Finale, it may be able to use audio plug-ins from other sources. So if John is happy with how his interpretation sounds from Sibelius, it may be possible to have Sibelius use the Ivory 2 piano sounds and export a raw audio file.

Then he can import those into DP for EQ, reverb, volume adjustment, mastering, etc. and not have to learn a whole new bunch about MIDI and VIs in Digital Performer.
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by HCMarkus »

John Froome wrote:
It's totally based on the video I mentioned on the first post.
Rant Alert

This is why folks didn't know what you needed to know.

Do you really expect people to take the time to review the video then provide you with an interpretation if you aren't willing to take the time to spell out your specific questions?

Just sayin'.

Looks like you've got some good input. I sincerely hope it provides the answers you seek. I also hope you will lay out future questions in detail for folks here to consider instead of expecting them to research what the heck you are talking about first.

End Rant
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by Shooshie »

John Froome wrote:Hi there

I don't get it. You say that you know how yo do it but it's too hard to explain ?

Is this some kind of joke?
Oh wait... I see what you mean. Like the time that Jascha Heifetz showed me how he plays the Bach Chaccone in D minor, and I was totally able to play it like him, even though I'm a woodwinds player and only rarely had played on a violin.

Ok. I'll tell you how it's done.
First, learn an instrument. It'll take about 10,000 hours of practice, and thousands more playing in ensembles, bands, groups, etc. Go play for hundreds of audiences. Get depressed after each concert, but then practice your tail off so that the slight pitch problem that only you heard in measure 63 won't happen again. Teach a few hundred students how to do it.
Then...
Buy and setup a computer system with DP.
Open DP.
Pick up the manual.
Read it cover to cover.
Practice everything in it 10 times in DP.
Record a few thousand projects.
Mix each of those at least 10 times.
Do thousands of MIDI sequences. Edit them hundreds of thousands of times.
Join a forum and discuss every inch of this app for 20 years or so.

Now... you're ready. Proceed to do what you set out to do.

Shooshie
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by Shooshie »

Well, so much for being nice. My apologies to the original poster. It kind of seemed like you were taunting us, posting a vague question, then expecting a miraculous answer, not getting it, then taunting those who tried. So, I'm going to try to give you a brief overview of what I think you're trying to do, and what you'd need to do to make it happen. I'm not going to explain each part, but refer you to the manual or to even recent posts in this group for the methods.

You want to create scores like those in the video, based on your playing of the piece. Is that right?

1) If so, you first play the piece and record it in MIDI. (refer to manual)
2) Next, you need to add bar lines to your performance. This is done by RECORD BEATS. Go to the menu Project/Change Conductor Track/Record Beats. Refer to manual, and to recent posts in this group, including one I answered a few days ago.
3) Once you have recorded the beats, clean them up with ADJUST BEATS. Same menu, right next to Record Beats. That is also discussed in a recent post. There may be something about it in the manual.
4) Once you've got this done, because you want to make a score of it, copy the performance track and paste it into another track or file entirely. Either way. This leaves you with a copy of the original performance, and a new copy which you'll turn into a score. Now, quantize this new copy. (see manual on Quantize) You will need to be careful that your quantized notes go to where they are supposed to go; if they are very far off the beat, they may jump to the next or previous beat. If that happens, you can move them manually to where they need to go. Quantize again if necessary after a lot of manual moving around.
5) Export the new quantized track as a General MIDI File.
6) Import it into Sibelius or Finale
7) Proceed to create the score you wish to make using that app.

Optionally, you can use Quickscribe for your score if it is all you need. If you don't need special engraving characters and notations, Quickscribe may be enough. You can show the quantized track in QS while playing the original performance, and you can have the advantage of the original performance sound while watching the score. Real performances sound much better than quantized ones.

That's it in a nutshell. Ask here in the forum if you get stumped with any of the steps. Maybe someone will be able to answer your question. Try to be specific.

Shooshie
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Re: How to "Create, edit and master" using Ivory 2 with DP9

Post by John Froome »

FMiguelez wrote:The general process of what you want, if I understand correctly, would be something like >

1.- Import your score from Sibelius to DP
2.- Depending on whether you had a tempo map with Sibelious, you might need to create a tempo map with DP if you want to work with accurate measures. If you had one in Sibelius, just put DP in Conductor mode and you're set
3.- Once you have a tempo map, you can tweak it (rallentando, rubato, etc.)
4.- You will also want to edit velocities. You do that with the MIDI Editor (Graphic Editor), or even in QS or SE, since the selection methods and tools are the same, but it's always easier in the GE.
------> You may also use volume automation in certain parts, especially if you want a "warm" sound, using low velocities and increasing the volume work better than banging at them, since that tends to sound harsh and "pingy"
5.- Once you're happy with the performance and interpretation, you can start tweaking the sound of the instrument (EQ, MB compression if necessary, etc.).
6.- Once you're happy, you should print the MIDI to audio
7.- Then you can master your project
8.- After you master it, you bounce (render) it to obtain your finished mastered audio file.

-- 5 through 7 do not require the printed file. It can be done even in the MIDI stage.
-- You'll keep "looping" from 3 to 6, and probably even 3 to 7, and going back and forth between them as needed, until you're happy and ready to bounce.


That is just an example of a typical workflow to what I understand you want to do.

The details as to how to use the tools are in DP's manual, which is easily searchable. But that overview should at least tell you what to look for and a good cohesive workflow to get started.
Thanks. I can't really figure out how big is the "created and mastered" part in the Bartok's video, since I come from Sibelius, which is just a software for editing scores, you know (it can also make you hear your scores and produce MIDI or AIFF files from them, "obviously"). The interesting point (for me) is that Bartok really was, along with Ravel, one of the top virtuosos of all times in the writing thing, which means that you "just" (it's the most difficult part actually) need to play it as it's written, with no rendition added ; that's precisely the type of tasks at which computers are out of match.

Still, I don't really get where in the process you describe is the Ivory part taking place..?
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