String Library problem

[Robert Sands]

I have a very frustrating problem that is driving me bonkers. I use DP 9.01 on a 12 core Mac with 28 gigs of ram and Solid State drives. So it's a very powerful Mac. The last tower they made before going to the cylindrical one. I have no problem doing big pieces of music (I score TV shows). All my hardware synths and in the box synths are running nicely. Omnisphere 2.0, the newest Kontakt Ultimate, etc. But... as soon as I try to use one of my string libraries - Hollywood Strings, Cinematic Strings 2.0, CineStrings, UVI Strings, etc. my computer cannot play them. One instance of say a Staccato string patch and the processing bar goes immediately into the red, clicks galore and the strings won't play on the beat. I just today bought still another string library - Heavyocity's NOVO strings in hopes that this would finally be the library that doesn't bring my Mac to its knees but I'm having the exact same freaking issues. What the heck gives? Have any of you had a similar problem with string libraries and then had an Ah Ha moment where you found out what the problem was and where able to fix it? I'm begging for help at this point. I have such great string libraries (and so much money tied into them) and I can't use any of them. Please, someone tell me what I might be doing wrong or have set wrong in my Mac.

[stubbsonic]

I'm wondering if, because these string libraries are prebuffering tons of different articulations if that is causing some added CPU/RAM/drive-bus demands. There might be some Kontakt settings that will make that work better or increasing your buffer size. I assume you've tried all that stuff?

[Michael Canavan]

I'm sure other people are better qualified than me to help with this. I play dark rock music essentially, but even then string libraries can be an issue.

Right away especially with heavy scripted Kontakt libraries do not over stack a Kontakt instance. Cinestrings comes to mind where I ended up maxing the CPU out but stacking just two heavily scripted libraries on a track. DP like most DAWs assigns a single CPU to a single track in the Mixer, so while I have a modded 12 core that shouldn't ever run out of CPU theoretically, I can easily max out a single track by stuffing it with pigs.

Drastic measures wise, it's possible to run Kontakt as a stand alone, and route via IAC MIDI from DP. You can even get third party apps that route audio back to DP from Kontakt stand alone.

The other "drastic" measure here is to update to DP 9.12. I know for a lot of people it's unstable so be prepared to roll it back if that's the case with you, but not everyone is experiencing the bugs with certain set ups that a lot of power users are. Power user = by the very nature of the beast the most demanding set ups. I can 90% of the time run more CPU hungry plug ins with 9.12 than previous versions, so it could be a solution for you.

[dix]

Do you tried VEP, Robert?

I don't know why you'd get this behavior on string libraries, but whenever I have anomalous CPU issues with a VI (often Omnisphere for me) I move them to VEP (same computer). That eliminates the issue 100% of the time.

[Robert Sands]

I haven't tried any optimization. Don't really know what to try. My DP buffer is set to 256. I just go and load in say violins in one of these libraries and bam, it maxes out the processing immediately. It might be something very obvious that I'm not aware of when using sampled string libraries. Don't assume I am not an idiot with some of this stuff. Lol What is the very first thing that comes to mind that you would do if you were experiencing this issue? I might be missing something very obvious. This def. should not be happening with a Mac this powerful. Thanks guys, I really appreciate your suggestions on what to try because I'm at my wit's end.

[Robert Sands]

What is VEP?

[FMiguelez]

What is VEP?

It's beauty. It's elegance and freedom. And power.

It's the app that changed everything...
https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Softwar ... semble_PRO

[mikehalloran]

I haven't tried any optimization. Don't really know what to try. My DP buffer is set to 256. I just go and load in say violins in one of these libraries and bam, it maxes out the processing immediately. It might be something very obvious that I'm not aware of when using sampled string libraries. Don't assume I am not an idiot with some of this stuff. Lol What is the very first thing that comes to mind that you would do if you were experiencing this issue? I might be missing something very obvious. This def. should not be happening with a Mac this powerful. Thanks guys, I really appreciate your suggestions on what to try because I'm at my wit's end.

The first thing I would do is increase the buffer size.

Second, how many instances of Kontakt are you running? Try one per instrument till you hit your core size—12 in your case. There are some old notes on this written by magicd from MOTU support.

If neither of these work for you, do put in a TechLink at motu.com and have them look at this.

[dix]

Sry. Vienna Ensemble Pro. It's a virtual instrument server made by Vienna. It's often used to slave external computers running VIs, but also dramatically increases internal CPU efficiency on single-computer rigs.

https://www.vsl.co.at/en/Vienna_Softwar ... semble_PRO

[dix]

If neither of these work for you, do put in a TechLink at motu.com and have them look at this

+1 on what Mike says. This behavior with string libraries on your setup sounds like something tech support might be able to sort out. Plus you might help them improve future DP updates. Though VEP6 is a wonderful tool, we're all hoping MOTU can make it redundant at some point. 9.1's new pre-render thing seemed like a move in this direction, but it's not there yet.

[HCMarkus]

I've been quite pleased with the number of VIs I can run under 9.12 using my hex MP. When combined with the lower latency it provides, 9.12 allows me to work with a buffer of 256 or 512 while retaining VI playability. I may get some clicks and pops here and there, but not so much as to render things unintelligible. All is well for mixing once buffer is raised to 1024.

The biggest issue I currently have with 9.12 is a MIDI sustain pedal issue; if punching in on a MIDI track, sus pedal performance is not passed thru to the VI during the recording pass. The pedal data is recorded and will play back properly, but is a real vibe killer, especially when recording MIDI piano. Workaround is to record on alternate MIDI tracks routed to a single VI.

You might try installing 9.12. Just change the name of your current DP9 install before you do so 9.12 won't overwrite it. That way, you can use whichever works best, or both.

[Morpheo]

I have a very frustrating problem that is driving me bonkers. I use DP 9.01 on a 12 core Mac with 28 gigs of ram and Solid State drives. So it's a very powerful Mac. The last tower they made before going to the cylindrical one. I have no problem doing big pieces of music (I score TV shows). All my hardware synths and in the box synths are running nicely. Omnisphere 2.0, the newest Kontakt Ultimate, etc. But... as soon as I try to use one of my string libraries - Hollywood Strings, Cinematic Strings 2.0, CineStrings, UVI Strings, etc. my computer cannot play them. One instance of say a Staccato string patch and the processing bar goes immediately into the red, clicks galore and the strings won't play on the beat. I just today bought still another string library - Heavyocity's NOVO strings in hopes that this would finally be the library that doesn't bring my Mac to its knees but I'm having the exact same freaking issues. What the heck gives? Have any of you had a similar problem with string libraries and then had an Ah Ha moment where you found out what the problem was and where able to fix it? I'm begging for help at this point. I have such great string libraries (and so much money tied into them) and I can't use any of them. Please, someone tell me what I might be doing wrong or have set wrong in my Mac.

That's really weird indeed!! A few things I'd try in no particular order:
- What happens when you load the factory strings in Kontakt?
- Do you have another DAW besides DP where you could try those libraries? Even Garageband would do I guess...
- What happens when you load the strings in standalone mode?

Out of curiosity which OS are you running?

[Robert Sands]

My OS is 10.10.5

Let me ask you guys - what DP Buffer Size do you run at?

[HCMarkus]

My OS is 10.10.5

Let me ask you guys - what DP Buffer Size do you run at?

If starting with piano, then drum programming (BFD), I'll crank it down to 128 for really tight feel. For scoring with orchestra, as noted above, 256 or 512 works very well for me in DP9.12. For mixing, I open it up all the way to 1024.

[Gravity Jim]

The other "drastic" measure here is to update to DP 9.12. I know for a lot of people it's unstable so be prepared to roll it back if that's the case with you, but not everyone is experiencing the bugs with certain set ups that a lot of power users are.

The implication that people not experiencing problems with 9.12 are wimpy, non-power users isn't a fact. I can and do run CIneStrings, CineBrass, CinePerc and LASS alongside Omnisphere, all inside DP 9.12, without a hiccup on a machine similar to yours.

OP, I'm not familiar with all those libraries, so I have to ask, do they all run inside Kontakt? If so, the first step would be to check your Kontakt settings (under the "gear" icon at the top of the Kontakt window), and see what you can see. I'd guess that in your Memory settings, the "Memory Server" is on: you don't want that. Experiment with the preload buffer, check the Audio buffer and sample rate. Dialing in Kontakt can take a bit of time.

Also, 9.12 did deliver the improved latency and capacity MOTU promised. I can run VI's much better and easier than I could in previous versions. If you load 9.12 and it doesn't work, then you've got something screwy going on in your Mac.