OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
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This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Hi all,
I'm currently using one machine, a mid 2010 mac pro dual 3.33 GHz 6 core Intel Xeon
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
42Gb RAM
VE Pro (Kontakt instances)
DP 9.12
I'm experiencing System overload during playback.
The CPU indication in 'Activity Monitor' looks ok, but the indicator in DP is always clipping and I hear clicks and pops.
I'm planning on moving to SSDs soon, but wanted people's opinions as to whether an OSX upgrade would assist with my issues, and if so... to what? The latest OS?
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my post.
I'm currently using one machine, a mid 2010 mac pro dual 3.33 GHz 6 core Intel Xeon
OSX Yosemite 10.10.5
42Gb RAM
VE Pro (Kontakt instances)
DP 9.12
I'm experiencing System overload during playback.
The CPU indication in 'Activity Monitor' looks ok, but the indicator in DP is always clipping and I hear clicks and pops.
I'm planning on moving to SSDs soon, but wanted people's opinions as to whether an OSX upgrade would assist with my issues, and if so... to what? The latest OS?
Thanks in advance for taking the time to read my post.
Mac Pro OSX 10.10.5
2 x 3.33 Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon
42 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
DP 9.13
2 x 3.33 Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon
42 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
DP 9.13
- MIDI Life Crisis
- Posts: 26254
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Contact:
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Yosemite was pretty good on my Mac. El Cap. not so much. Sierra seems to be working OK - certainly better then the other two.
I don't remember exactly why, but DP 9.12 had some issues that made me move back to 9.01, so there's that.
I assume you know you can set a preference to prevent DP from stopping playback when occasional CPU spikes hit. It's in audio preferences and is a very old bug in DP. I don't get those much anymore unless I'm using a boatload of VIs with complex patches or lots of samples being triggered.
If you're overload is due to VIs (as opposed to audio) there are strategies to alleviate much of that, but if that's not the issue I won't get into that now.
You don't mention your audio device (if any) and that may be an important aspect in the popping and clicking - and which may also be unrelated to the CPU peaks. It could be clocking, the connection method (USB, FW, TB, etc).
I don't remember exactly why, but DP 9.12 had some issues that made me move back to 9.01, so there's that.
I assume you know you can set a preference to prevent DP from stopping playback when occasional CPU spikes hit. It's in audio preferences and is a very old bug in DP. I don't get those much anymore unless I'm using a boatload of VIs with complex patches or lots of samples being triggered.
If you're overload is due to VIs (as opposed to audio) there are strategies to alleviate much of that, but if that's not the issue I won't get into that now.
You don't mention your audio device (if any) and that may be an important aspect in the popping and clicking - and which may also be unrelated to the CPU peaks. It could be clocking, the connection method (USB, FW, TB, etc).
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Thanks for your reply,
So, my playback issues at the moment are MIDI related, not audio. I'm playing LA Scoring Strings via VE Pro on the same machine plus some Cinesamples Brass.
I'm working at a 128 buffer since I'm at the composing stage, and can't properly play stuff in with any more latency than that. I'm thinking SSDs will help me in this area, correct?
Like I say, it doesn't seem like it's the CPU spluttering according to 'Activity Monitor', only according to DP. That's why I'm a little confused. the weird thing is that sometimes it splutters on what seems to be a less complicated cue than another one that plays fine. Or perhaps I'm imagining it
Can you suggest a few tips to optimise my VIs?
I'm not the most techy guy in the world, but I kinda know my way around my system, and am familiar with most settings.
I'm using a MOTU audio express.
So, my playback issues at the moment are MIDI related, not audio. I'm playing LA Scoring Strings via VE Pro on the same machine plus some Cinesamples Brass.
I'm working at a 128 buffer since I'm at the composing stage, and can't properly play stuff in with any more latency than that. I'm thinking SSDs will help me in this area, correct?
Like I say, it doesn't seem like it's the CPU spluttering according to 'Activity Monitor', only according to DP. That's why I'm a little confused. the weird thing is that sometimes it splutters on what seems to be a less complicated cue than another one that plays fine. Or perhaps I'm imagining it
Can you suggest a few tips to optimise my VIs?
I'm not the most techy guy in the world, but I kinda know my way around my system, and am familiar with most settings.
I'm using a MOTU audio express.
Mac Pro OSX 10.10.5
2 x 3.33 Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon
42 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
DP 9.13
2 x 3.33 Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon
42 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
DP 9.13
- HCMarkus
- Posts: 9755
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
- Contact:
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
While SSDs may help to a degree, given the small (128) buffer, CPU momentary overload is probably the issue. Apple's Activity Monitor shows CPU usage updated at intervals of either 1, 2 or 5 seconds. (View>Update Frequency). It doesn't show momentary peaks. DP's meter seems to show peaks and thus reflects what you are hearing more accurately.
You may find DP9.12 works better for you than 8.07; its latency (for any given buffer size) is less than earlier versions, and it does lots of pre-rendering. Under 9.12, I find that I can use buffers as large as 512, and definitely 256, and still have playable VIs. OTOH, I have found 9.12 under Sierra to be less stable than the rock solid 8.07 under Mountain Lion.
You can try setting VIs to load a larger portion of their sample sets into memory. If you have enough RAM and disc access time is truly an issue, this will definitely help.
If you are not already doing so, you should try hosting all your VIs in VE Pro. Although I don't use VE Pro, the word on the street is it offers unbeatable efficiency as a VI host. This may be your best bet.
Good luck!
You may find DP9.12 works better for you than 8.07; its latency (for any given buffer size) is less than earlier versions, and it does lots of pre-rendering. Under 9.12, I find that I can use buffers as large as 512, and definitely 256, and still have playable VIs. OTOH, I have found 9.12 under Sierra to be less stable than the rock solid 8.07 under Mountain Lion.
You can try setting VIs to load a larger portion of their sample sets into memory. If you have enough RAM and disc access time is truly an issue, this will definitely help.
If you are not already doing so, you should try hosting all your VIs in VE Pro. Although I don't use VE Pro, the word on the street is it offers unbeatable efficiency as a VI host. This may be your best bet.
Good luck!
- MIDI Life Crisis
- Posts: 26254
- Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 10:01 pm
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Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
On a multi-core machine with threading, especially when using highly scripted and/or sample intense instrument, you should place the bigger instruments in their OWN instantiation of the VI. Other instruments should be in THEIR OWN instantiation. IOW, if I am running Kontakt with a highly scripted slide guitar in slot one and then place a complex piano in slot two, that can hit the CPU pretty hard.
If I put the slide guitar by itself in on instance of Kontakt and then create another instance of Kontakt with just the piano in it, DP will use separate cores in the machine to process each instance. Otherwise, both the guitar and the piano are being processed by a single core and the CPU takes a hit.
The easy way to remember this is that each instance of the VI should have it's own fader in the mixer. It doesn't matter if it's in a V-Rack or not, just that the VI has only one instrument for the "heavy hitters."
If you have some instrument that are not that intense, you could still put those in a single, multi-channel instance of the VI and you should be OK. But agin, if the instruments are large, heavily scripted, or have a high number of samples to process, then EACH instrument (patch) should be in it's own instantiation of the VI in question.
This come right from the mouth (fingers?) of Magic Dave at MOTU and he knows pretty much everything there is to know about this stuff. He plays a pretty mean guitar, too...
You gotta love DP...
If I put the slide guitar by itself in on instance of Kontakt and then create another instance of Kontakt with just the piano in it, DP will use separate cores in the machine to process each instance. Otherwise, both the guitar and the piano are being processed by a single core and the CPU takes a hit.
The easy way to remember this is that each instance of the VI should have it's own fader in the mixer. It doesn't matter if it's in a V-Rack or not, just that the VI has only one instrument for the "heavy hitters."
If you have some instrument that are not that intense, you could still put those in a single, multi-channel instance of the VI and you should be OK. But agin, if the instruments are large, heavily scripted, or have a high number of samples to process, then EACH instrument (patch) should be in it's own instantiation of the VI in question.
This come right from the mouth (fingers?) of Magic Dave at MOTU and he knows pretty much everything there is to know about this stuff. He plays a pretty mean guitar, too...
You gotta love DP...
- buzzsmith
- Posts: 3097
- Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2004 10:01 pm
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Houston
- Contact:
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Following and thank you.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV
Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV
Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Love indeed. DP has had this ability for a while and it's another reason why it's a favorite among film composers.MIDI Life Crisis wrote:On a multi-core machine with threading, especially when using highly scripted and/or sample intense instrument, you should place the bigger instruments in their OWN instantiation of the VI. Other instruments should be in THEIR OWN instantiation. IOW, if I am running Kontakt with a highly scripted slide guitar in slot one and then place a complex piano in slot two, that can hit the CPU pretty hard.
If I put the slide guitar by itself in on instance of Kontakt and then create another instance of Kontakt with just the piano in it, DP will use separate cores in the machine to process each instance. Otherwise, both the guitar and the piano are being processed by a single core and the CPU takes a hit.
The easy way to remember this is that each instance of the VI should have it's own fader in the mixer. It doesn't matter if it's in a V-Rack or not, just that the VI has only one instrument for the "heavy hitters."
If you have some instrument that are not that intense, you could still put those in a single, multi-channel instance of the VI and you should be OK. But agin, if the instruments are large, heavily scripted, or have a high number of samples to process, then EACH instrument (patch) should be in it's own instantiation of the VI in question.
This come right from the mouth (fingers?) of Magic Dave at MOTU and he knows pretty much everything there is to know about this stuff. He plays a pretty mean guitar, too...
You gotta love DP...
As many cores and as much memory as possible are a must if you're working with heavy VI loads. Processing power not so much unless you're doing a lot of mixing/mastering.
Frank Ferrucci
http://www.ferruccimusic.com
Mac Pro 6,1 64gb RAM DP9.52 OSX 10.12.6 MIO 2882d & ULN2d Firewire Audio Interfaces, MOTU MTP-AV USB
http://www.ferruccimusic.com
Mac Pro 6,1 64gb RAM DP9.52 OSX 10.12.6 MIO 2882d & ULN2d Firewire Audio Interfaces, MOTU MTP-AV USB
- Kellog
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 10:01 pm
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- Location: Black Mountain, NC
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Thanks MIDI Life Crisis for the "each sample intensive instrument should have its own instance" advice. Frequently wondered about that and will now explore doing things this way.
Mac mini (2018) 3.2 Ghz 6 Core Intel Core i7 w/64 GB ram, OSX Catalina 10.15.7, DP 10.13, UAD Apollo Quad, Komplete 13 Ultimate, Superior Drummer 3, EZ Keys, EZ Bass, EZ Mix 2, Stylus RMX 1.7f, Avid Eleven Rack.
- buzzsmith
- Posts: 3097
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Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Yes. I'm doing that right now with a pretty heavy orchestral piece.Kellog wrote:Thanks MIDI Life Crisis for the "each sample intensive instrument should have its own instance" advice. Frequently wondered about that and will now explore doing things this way.
I have 4 instances of Kontakt going and the performance meter is only at about 10%.
I may get a meter spike when I hit Play, but nothing audible.
Buzzy
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Early 2009 Mac Pro 4,1>5,1 3.33 GHz Hex Core Intel Xeon OS X 10.8.5 SSD (32 gigs RAM)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV
Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)
DP 9.51 PCI-424e / original 2408, 2408mkII, 24I/O, MTP-AV
Yamaha C7 Conservatory Grand
Hammond B-3 / Leslie 145
Focal Twin6 Be(s)
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Thank you all, for your comments.
At the moment I have separated the bigger instruments into different instances of VEPro. I'm gonna go ahead now an delve into VI settings, maybe increase the preload etc.
Lastly, any thoughts about Yosemite 10.10.5 with DP 9.12?
Upgrade or leave it?
At the moment I have separated the bigger instruments into different instances of VEPro. I'm gonna go ahead now an delve into VI settings, maybe increase the preload etc.
Lastly, any thoughts about Yosemite 10.10.5 with DP 9.12?
Upgrade or leave it?
Mac Pro OSX 10.10.5
2 x 3.33 Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon
42 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
DP 9.13
2 x 3.33 Ghz 6-Core Intel Xeon
42 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
DP 9.13
- HCMarkus
- Posts: 9755
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
- Primary DAW OS: MacOS
- Location: Rancho Bohemia, California
- Contact:
Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Yeah, but you have that souped-up Mac! Ain't in a peach?buzzsmith wrote:I have 4 instances of Kontakt going and the performance meter is only at about 10%.
- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
The hell with that. He has my piano! AND I WANT IT BACK!!! LOLHCMarkus wrote:Yeah, but you have that souped-up Mac! Ain't in a peach?buzzsmith wrote:I have 4 instances of Kontakt going and the performance meter is only at about 10%.
- HCMarkus
- Posts: 9755
- Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:01 am
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Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Shipping will be a bitch.MIDI Life Crisis wrote:The hell with that. He has my piano! AND I WANT IT BACK!!! LOLHCMarkus wrote:Yeah, but you have that souped-up Mac! Ain't in a peach?buzzsmith wrote:I have 4 instances of Kontakt going and the performance meter is only at about 10%.
- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Actually, not as bad as you might think. I know a guy who knows a guy...
- Michael Canavan
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Re: OSX DP 9.12 performance advice/opinions
Dead on answers here. IMO 128 is doable, it seems to work great here anyway. I have Cinebrass etc. and Cinesamples in general do NOT stack well in a single instance of Kontakt. Best to give them all separate instances. The CPU hit for another instance of Kontakt is far less than the scripts Cinesamples uses for their libraries.
Multi CPU computers like separate tracks due to the way DAWs assign cores to tracks etc. A modern 4Ghz four core iMac will perform better on single tracks, but an 8-12 core machine wants multiple tracks.
Multi CPU computers like separate tracks due to the way DAWs assign cores to tracks etc. A modern 4Ghz four core iMac will perform better on single tracks, but an 8-12 core machine wants multiple tracks.
M2 Studio Ultra, RME Babyface FS, Slate Raven Mti2, NI SL88 MKII, Linnstrument, MPC Live II, Launchpad MK3. Hundreds of plug ins.