Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

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mikehalloran
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by mikehalloran »

Shooshie wrote:One thing I like about Logitech mice, trackballs and keyboards is that they use their own little USB receiver plug for a wireless receiver. You don't have to wait for Bluetooth to come up, meaning you can use them for system repair, changing sys/drives and OS's, etc. Apple may have fixed that problem; I haven't done that with my Magic Trackpad lately. But not so many years ago, I would have to plug in a wired mouse and keyboard to do any system work.

Shoosh
v.1 of the Magic Trackpad required a wired mouse (or my trackball) for system work. With the MT2, all I have to to is give it a click on the lower left corner and it responds, even when doing an Option-boot or a Command-r into the repair partition.

My trackball is hard-wired and velcro'd to the upper right corner of my desk so it's there if I need. No reason to remove it; came in handy when I booted into a Yosemite drive.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by dpg4macman »

Kensington Expert Mouse along with the wireless Magic Trackpad work oh so well together.
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MX Ergo

Post by stubbsonic »

I just saw a blurb for the Logitech MX Ergo which looks interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db6ux01T83Q

Anyone using one of those?
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Re: MX Ergo

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

stubbsonic wrote:I just saw a blurb for the Logitech MX Ergo which looks interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db6ux01T83Q

Anyone using one of those?
The thought of holding something in my hand to navigate a computer screen has become alien to me. My hands are now free of an extra thing to point to a spot in "space."

I know that's not what you're saying, but frankly, the MagicTrackpad 2 has totally changed my SOP. Fine edits are as easy as rolling a join... (force of habit), I mean, a finger.

I never thought I could loose my MX Revolution dependency (and never liked trackpads) but truly, for me and many others, a tactile, precision, programmable trackpad is the next best thing to "thinking" where I want the cursor to be.

While this thing looks (and probably is) very cool and fun and precise, I have also learned that the lifespan of the average Logitech device is between 4-5 years at best with heavy use. Add to that the fact that wireless pointing devices (at least in my experience) tend to loose the connection from time to time (regardless of whether it's a Bluetooth or RF signal).

So to stay on topic from the o/p, my favorite wireless mouse is a Magic Trackpad 2.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by stubbsonic »

When I use my Trackpad on my MBP, it's "just ok." And I get that the Magic Trackpad (for you) is an order of magnitude better.

As I've mentioned previously, when I tried it in the Apple Store, it didn't feel like much of an improvement over what-a-trackpad-is. I still had difficulty selecting multiple objects and dragging them. I just stood there for about 20 minutes trying to figure out "what's the big deal?" Didn't experience it.

But I also get how clunky a mouse is. Especially, when I have to lift it up and set it down repeatedly to get across a screen (one reason the integrated trackball seems appealing).

With a trackpad, I hate that the act of clicking can move the cursor-- not usually, but sometimes. I like to be able to park the cursor and click independently.

FWIW, my intellimouse is going strong after many years.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by bayswater »

:MLC, about what Stubbsonic said: I didn't have much time to see what the TP 2 can do when I saw one. I have a version 1. It has it's place, but it doesn't replace the mouse. What does your TP2 do that the TP1 doesn't?
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by Shooshie »

The Trackpad 2 has better multiplexing antennas so that it does not lose connection so easily. (at all) The Trackpad 1 would sometimes lose connection, or a strange amplification would take place where a small movement would jolt the cursor across the screen. Needless to say, that was frustrating when it happened. One day I figured out the problem: the antenna was picking up an echo or something, like a side-band on citizen's band radio, such that the signals were still being heard, but modified. The fix? Move the trackpad an inch or two. But I got tired of that. The TP2 does not require that anymore. I think Apple mentioned that in their list of improvements.

The biggest differences for me are:
1) and off switch. Just a plain old sliding switch. You can turn it off and the cat can't take a bath on your trackpad, posting messages, deleting files, and changing names. That button alone was worth the price of admission.
2) The aforementioned multiplexing antenna
3) greater space, and a rectangular shape, like your monitor.
4) Rechargeable battery lasts for a month or more between charges, plugs into phone-charger port or USB. (MP1 used AA cell batteries)
5) Very accurate
6) VERY low profile. Just about the thickness of a match book or something along those lines.
7) You can use the MP2 on startup and when doing SOME system level things that require a wired mouse, normally. The original MP was not useful at all on startup. I kept a wired mouse and keyboard around for that.

Other features, such as Haptic Feedback and Force Click are cool, and I like them, but they don't make me salivate for them.

HERE'S THE JACKPOT:
The most important thing about the Magic Trackpad is not so much what you can do with it in the Apple Store — which is very little — but what you can program it to do and learn like sign language with your hands, using a 3rd party app like Jitouch or Better Touch Tool. With Jitouch, I can draw characters — the letters of the alphabet — and each one can trigger a command within each individual app. In other words, every command can be unique to the app you're working in, or it can be universal, whichever way you set up each command. In some apps I may have dozens of commands, but there are specific commands that I use in nearly every app I run.

You have to LEARN how to use these. It's not automatic. You have to commit to it. Commit for one month, and I doubt that you'll ever go back to a regular trackball or mouse, ever again. Those gestures are not necessarily easy to learn. If they were, you'd be accidentally triggering them all the time. They are non-habitual movements. Non-automatic. Drawing those characters is awkward as can be at first. Gets easier as you learn what works and what doesn't work, but once you learn, they work every time.

One more thing: I used to think that scrolling in Digital Performer was amazing on a Kensington Turbo Mouse Trackball — the old kind that worked so well and had 13 programmable buttons. It was a breeze to scroll through a sequence.

Well, it turns out that even THAT was clunky compared to the Magic Trackpad. Scrolling is like... well... magic. It's weighted and just flies when you want it to, or you can select the tiniest dot. Roll your finger for the smallest selection. Hold down your thumb, then roll or slide your fingers to select, or just push with the finger that's sliding or rolling. Either way, but they each have their advantages for various circumstances.

I bought two Logitech devices — a mouse and a trackball — a couple years ago, just to see if I was missing something with the Magic Trackpad. People kept saying I just didn't know what I was missing, so I bought them. Tried them. It's like wearing a straightjacket. The MP2 is like riding the wind or flying. Trackballs are like skating, but mice are like wearing heavy boots.

I've written these words several times in this forum. I don't expect people to do what I do, but I feel sorry for those who have not given the MP2 a serious try. It takes a month to get things rolling. Really, it does. Once you do, you probably will never go back.

While we are talking about input, I use a Logitech K750 (Mac) keyboard. Best wireless keyboard ever. Believe me, I've tried a BUNCH of them, including all that Apple ever made. This is head and shoulders above them all. The only problem with it is that it's not very robust. Cats have broken the legs a few times. I just buy another keyboard — the same kind — when one of these bites the dust. I don't care how long they last. They are so good I'll always get this kind. Of course, having said that, they'll stop making it. They always do when you find the perfect thing. I don't want to list all the great things about it. Just trust me when I say that no other wireless keyboard is so useful and excellent. Take care of it and it will last a long time. If it breaks in a couple years, just replace it. They aren't terribly expensive. Oh... did I mention that it's solar powered? You NEVER have to replace a battery. Well... if you keep it long enough, the rechargeable battery inside may eventually die, and you may have to replace it or buy another keyboard. But it lasts years.

Shoosh
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by bayswater »

Shooshie wrote:HERE'S THE JACKPOT:
Thanks for taking the time to write such a detailed review. But here's the thing about the jackpot: you wrote a similar description of the TP 1, describing the use of gestures using JITouch (don't think Better Touch was around at the time). Does version 2 do gestures better than version 1? A lot better? I spent a while with JITouch and never got to the point where I preferred it to keyboard commands with a bit of mouse. You, on the other hand, mastered gestures on version 1, so version 2 was a no brainer.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by mikehalloran »

The TP 1 was good. I liked it. When it stopped working, I bought a TP 2. Major improvement. I no longer use my trackball unless booted into Yosemite where the TP 2 doesn’t work. With the TP 1, fine editing was more precise on my Logitech trackball.

One of the things that takes getting used to is the 3D response — your finger pressure can change the response. If I press too hard while doing a click-drag, it doesn’t work as I expect. Took a few days and now it’s not an issue. You can program quite a bit into the response, of course.

My TP 1 stopped working because it went out of adjustment. I fixed it and got $50 for it and a keyboard I never used on eBay. :woohoo:
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by stubbsonic »

mikehalloran wrote: unless booted into Yosemite where the TP 2 doesn’t work.
Oh. Well, that rules it out for me, at least for the time being. No need to let this shift into a conversation about Mac OS updates, but I'm staying in Yosemite for now.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by mikehalloran »

stubbsonic wrote:
mikehalloran wrote: unless booted into Yosemite where the TP 2 doesn’t work.
Oh. Well, that rules it out for me, at least for the time being. No need to let this shift into a conversation about Mac OS updates, but I'm staying in Yosemite for now.
Yep, the support boards are full of users who didn’t get the memo on that one — if indeed there was a memo at all.

Cursor, left-click and click-drag do work in Yosemite but nothing else, not even click-hold where the additional menu pops up. That’s the one that defaults to 2-finger and most program to right-click — those functions are unavailable in OS 10.10 and earlier.

The Magic Trackpad 2 requires El Capitán or later.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by KenNickels »

Whatever kind of mouse or pointer you use, there will eventually be repetitive stress concerns. Editing those tiny objects in DP requires a fine control (and force) for long periods of time. The biggest contributor to pointing stress is the "click and drag." I've tried all kinds of pointers, pads, mice, using both my right hand and left hand, both vertical and horizontal. And I finally came up with this:

when my hand starts to hurt I use a foot switch for the click and my fingers for the drag. The hand can now relax a little. I built the foot switch from a Maudio sustain pedal, whose leads I hooked up to the circuit board of a mouse, replacing the left mouse click switch with the pedal. This may take some getting used to - but I used to be a drummer and I'm not averse to using my feet. Like anything, you get used to it.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by stubbsonic »

That is the most clever and awesome idea I've heard in a long time! I can easily imagine myself getting the hang of it. (i play some drums, too).

I might be able to use macro software to get mac OS to produce a left click in response to a MIDI command (sustain pedal) without having to do any hardware mod.
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by bayswater »

Time to dust off the Taurus pedals?
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Re: Your favorite wireless mouse for editing in DP

Post by stubbsonic »

Or maybe some bluetooth foot pedal thing, like airturn would work.

I was just sitting here doing a little miming of it, and I think I'd acclimate quickly. If I thought having a CC for "pressure" could work, I'd be all over that.

With the MIDI switch idea, the mouse button and the foot switch would both be available.
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