A few basic questions from a prospective buyer

[vannibombonato]

Dear All,
as i'm committing much more on orchestral work i am scouting for a DAW to switch from Ableton Live.

Cubase is on the list, but i dont like the interface, same goes for Logic, and i recently started digging on DP, which honestly has never been on my radar as it's not as hyped as the other main DAWS. Wrongfully so from what i've researched.
What i've seen from tutorials etc...i like it a lot. Hell of a lot. While obviously having very deep potential and requiring months of study, the interface still looks slick and lean.

Now, i have a few basic things i'd like my next DAW to be able to do, and while i did research, we're talking about a 1k page manual here, so maybe i could use a quick help from the experts.

Consider that i plan on working on a small-mid size template with VEP (200ish tracks). So 90% is going to be kontakt controlling via VEP, remaining 10% a few VST tracks with some synths within DAW (or VEP

(basic) things i'd like to be able to do:
- Show only tracks with data: at a single point in the timeline, and ideally within a specified region. Cubase does this, i read from the website that DP should do this as well, but i dont know wether it can do it within a single point / set region reference. This is a life-saving function.

- I would like to assign the above commands to a MIDI controller button / shortcut, or even better to a button like on an ipad running TouchOSC or Lemur. Possible?

- I'll be running tons of MIDI tracks assigned to various VEP plugins and instances: I want each MIDI track to be "mixable" within DP, that is, i want audio routed back from VEP to be manipulated within the relevant MIDI track (faders, panning, EQs, plugins, etc). Can i do it or do i need to have "another" audio track for each MIDI track i want to control?

- I have a simple Korg Studio Kontrol which i would like to use in 2 ways: jog wheel and transport buttons for transport, and faders assigned to fixied MIDI CCs to control instruments (dynamics, expression, vibrato, etc. Obviously each instrument is edited to have the same CCs controlling main parameters). Can i assign transport functions to MIDI messages? Can i assign forward/rewind to the jog wheel (she is sending MIDI CC as well)? I can naturally very easy edit my Studio Kontrol template to send the right CCs.
While a pretty basic function, right now i am using a StudioKontrol in Mackie protocol to control transport, and another NanoKontrol in MIDI mode to send CCs. Very inconvenient, but i have to choose one of the two as the scrubbing controls are not mappable in Live.

Any other input or suggestion?

Thanks a lot for your help, and hope to join this community soon.

Regards,

Vanni

[vudoo]

(basic) things i'd like to be able to do:
- Show only tracks with data: at a single point in the timeline, and ideally within a specified region. Cubase does this, i read from the website that DP should do this as well, but i dont know wether it can do it within a single point / set region reference. This is a life-saving function.

DP has ''Show tracks with data'' but does not have ''at a single point'' option nor ''within a set point/region reference''. What i do with my orchestral template (700+ tracks) is use ''Show only track play enabled''. This is similar to a mute and not ''track disable'' in Cubase where you have to wait for the instrument to load.

You can also use ''Track Layout'' and update it as you built your song.

- I would like to assign the above commands to a MIDI controller button / shortcut, or even better to a button like on an ipad running TouchOSC or Lemur. Possible?

Yes, as you can create custom keyboard shortcuts for all the Show/Hide features, they can easily be mapped on whichever device you want.

- I'll be running tons of MIDI tracks assigned to various VEP plugins and instances: I want each MIDI track to be "mixable" within DP, that is, i want audio routed back from VEP to be manipulated within the relevant MIDI track (faders, panning, EQs, plugins, etc). Can i do it or do i need to have "another" audio track for each MIDI track i want to control?

The audio from your VEP slave will be routed back to DP via Aux tracks then bussed to Audio tracks for recording or they can be routed to audio tracks directly. In Cubase, you cannot route to audio tracks directly, you must use Aux tracks.
For someone who wants to have everything separated, being able to route your VEP directly to audio tracks will save you hundreds of unnecessary aux tracks.

Can i assign transport functions to MIDI messages? Can i assign forward/rewind to the jog wheel (she is sending MIDI CC as well)? I can naturally very easy edit my Studio Kontrol template to send the right CCs.

This is more on your device's end as oppose to DP. For example, if you want to send CC11 (Expression), whether it's from your transport, faders or jog wheel, it will work as long as your device allows it.

I suggest you d/l a demo as DP's way of doing things are quite different from other DAWs. Good luck!

[stubbsonic]

As a general note, DP has MANY powerful composition features. And there is an internal logic that once you get it mapped in your head remains very consistent.

There are a few little complaints that users have about DP; like a few UI graphic elements that are too small to work with easily, or a lack of better pitch & time implementation. Most of the rest of the complaints have more to do with preferred workflow.

Beyond that, with so many things going for it, long-timers on this forum are always left scratching our heads as to why DP is often left out of "top DAW" lists. Actually, some of us know that a "popular DAW" is often a dumbed down, feature-poor, kid-toy with no room to grow. Yes, GarageBand is popular, and it can produce "big" music-- but even when it's free, it's not worth the space it takes on my drive.

Lastly, producers of EDM like other DAW's for the kinds of workflows that are needed for loopy, synthy music. That you are working with orchestral music, indicates (to me anyway) that DP will make you very happy.

[zuul-studios]

+1 for the above responding posts.

I just wish to add that, for me, VEPro 6 & DP9 is a wonderfully stable combination. As one of the responders said, the audio out from VEPro 6 can be routed to either an Aux Track or an Audio Track within DP9. Creating a master templet is a chore when working with VEPro 6, as is most probably the case when working with other DAWs. Once that master templet is created, all is well with the world, at least for me. One of the things that I do to help make things less cluttered looking is to create Folders to house both MIDI & Audio (and/or Aux) tracks within them. Engaging or dis-engaging the Folders reveals or hides the MIDI & Audio tracks. Finally, one of the many things that I like about DP is that there is more than one way to get the job done. I've found "my way" which greatly assists my creative process of music-creation.

I wish you well with your decision making.

[waxman]

Not being an orchestral template guy I don't do film scores or large orchestrations. But I do a lot of records. DP has a elegant work environment. It is dynamic in layout which imo separates it from the rest. When it comes to features PT, Logic, Cubase an DP do all the same stuff one way or another.

Most of my friends who do film score work and orchestrations use DP. You may face a bit of a learning curve and because of the dynamic layout you will find yourself messing with the layout more then other DAWs with fixed environments. But once you get how you like to work into a template it's amazing. I also appreciate that depending on the project you are not locked in to a set up. I do own PT and Logic but for many reasons DP remains my DAW of choice. One huge factor is the vision of the companies. AVID is NOT customer centric. Apple has a gazillion things going on and Logic is no where near the top of the list.

Cubase is Yamaha which is another story. I assume you are going to work on a Mac computer. Cubase 9 is borrowing a lot of design from MOTU's Digital Performer. Scalable windows for the mixer, the SE and MIDI windows look like DP. Dynamic layout and unlimited Undo history are among a few. Before version 9 Cubase always looked liked a Mario game to me... The big factors with Cubase are VST and touchscreen if you go with Windows.

Personally I am going to stick with Cambridge, MA over Tokyo for a number or reasons. After working with a Slate Raven for the last year I think if any of these DAW companies come out with a proprietary touch screen controller and a gui that is friendly to touch will have a huge advantage.

Lastly a shout out to Presonus Studio One and System III. They are leading the pack in the controller department. I used Studio for a live band/studio project a couple years ago and it was not ready for prime time but they are coming on fast. I'm getting a 32 channel System III for a live act and will report back if Studio One is ready for prime time.

To invest the time and energy into a DAW imo is to invest in the company and MOTU which is consistent from one decade to the next is a crucial factor. I hope you go with DP.

[vannibombonato]

Thanks to all for the thorough and detailed answers. Pretty much what i wanted to hear.

I will obviously do a thorough test with the demo, but just to clarify one of your answers, when you talk about routing audio from VEP back into an audio track in DP, do you mean that for each MIDI track that contains an articulation, i need another audio track set up in order to monitor/pan/eq/whatever it?

That would mean that, say, if i have 200 MIDI tracks controlling 200 instruments in a few VEP instances i would need 200 audio tracks on top of them if i wanted to i.e. pan/eq each of them separately?
I can obviously create groups etc., but i cant understand why would i need to be forced into creating track duplicates in order to do some basic pre-mixing (coming from Live, if i wanted a separate audio track i would simply create one and set the input from the relevant MIDI track, but the MIDI track would still behave like an audio track -if i wanted to-).

What worries me is just the inconvenience of having zillions of tracks that are not really needed (that is, in my current workflow...which anyway does not work anymore ) .

Will take the time to dig into the demo.

Thanks to all again, will report back in a few weeks.

Ciao,

Vanni

[Robert Randolph]

Thanks to all for the thorough and detailed answers. Pretty much what i wanted to hear.

I will obviously do a thorough test with the demo, but just to clarify one of your answers, when you talk about routing audio from VEP back into an audio track in DP, do you mean that for each MIDI track that contains an articulation, i need another audio track set up in order to monitor/pan/eq/whatever it?

That would mean that, say, if i have 200 MIDI tracks controlling 200 instruments in a few VEP instances i would need 200 audio tracks on top of them if i wanted to i.e. pan/eq each of them separately?
I can obviously create groups etc., but i cant understand why would i need to be forced into creating track duplicates in order to do some basic pre-mixing (coming from Live, if i wanted a separate audio track i would simply create one and set the input from the relevant MIDI track, but the MIDI track would still behave like an audio track -if i wanted to-).

What worries me is just the inconvenience of having zillions of tracks that are not really needed (that is, in my current workflow...which anyway does not work anymore ) .

Will take the time to dig into the demo.

Thanks to all again, will report back in a few weeks.

Ciao,

Vanni

I suggest checking in to the 'Track Layouts' feature as well as the 'Track Grouping' features, specifically the show/hide selection of track groups.

That should allow you to easily navigate a huge project without having to constantly look at that huge project.

[zuul-studios]

I will obviously do a thorough test with the demo, but just to clarify one of your answers, when you talk about routing audio from VEP back into an audio track in DP, do you mean that for each MIDI track that contains an articulation, i need another audio track set up in order to monitor/pan/eq/whatever it?

The short answer to your question is No.

The longer answer to your question is this. No. . .

How you configure the Audio and/or Aux channels within DP is dependent on how you configure the Audio Out from VEPro 6 (or VEPro 5, if that's the version you have). For example, if you have the Audio Out of all of the articulations of one given instrument configured to one Audio Channel within VEPro, then all that you need is one Audio In configured within DP 9. This is independent to the number of MIDI channels that you've created to respond to each different articulation for one given instrument. In other words, you can have five MIDI channels responding to five different articulations of one given instrument and have one Audio Channel, configured in both VEPro and DP, to handle all of the articulations of that one instrument. (I hope that this all makes sense.) With this said, you DO have the option to configure both VEPro and DP to handle separate audio channels for each different articulation of one instrument, if so desired.

FWIW, I use keyswitches to handle the different articulations of one instrument, which I find to be very freeing and helpful in keeping the clutter of MIDI (and audio) channels to a minimum.

[Robert Randolph]

DP has ''Show tracks with data'' but does not have ''at a single point'' option nor ''within a set point/region reference''. What i do with my orchestral template (700+ tracks) is use ''Show only track play enabled''. This is similar to a mute and not ''track disable'' in Cubase where you have to wait for the instrument to load.

If you make a time selection, you can use the Search Window (Ctrl-S in OS X) with these settings:



That will select all tracks with data starting in the selection. Now you can use View->Show Only Tracks->Selected.

This works with soundbites, automation, chord symbols, controllers, streamers/punches/flutters etc.. too, but you do need to have at least the beginning of the event selected. I do not know how to select items if you do not have at least the beginning selected, but perhaps there's some clever way to do it?

You can also use the 'Lasso' function (pg. 500 in DP9 manual explains it) to select a range and have all tracks belonging to the selected events selected. Now you can use View->Show Only Tracks->Selected.

If you explore the Search function more, you can come up with all sorts of ways to select tracks based on various criteria. These searches can be saved, assigned shortcuts and re-used.