Clock stability in MOTU 896 mK III?

[Empathy]

Hi there,

My current home recording setup includes an 896 mK iii, I rarely record more than one or two tracks at a time, as I'm generally only recording myself. I don't record bands currently. I used to have a studio in an old band rehearsal space, and my setup then required me to buy an external sync generator (ART Syncgen). I was wondering if there was any value in using an external clock with my 896, or if the internal clock is solid enough for my needs?

[HCMarkus]

An external clock is unlikely to improve the sound of your 896. My research and experience causes me to believe that external clocks are necessary only in situations in which multiple resources must be synchronized. I sincerely doubt you will find your interface lacking when it comes to clocking.

[Klaus]

Sorry, don't agree…
Since clocking the 896mk3 from an X32 via ADAT, the sound IS different, more wide, more defined…
Try it out
Best regards

Klaus

[magicd]

Sorry, don't agree…
Since clocking the 896mk3 from an X32 via ADAT, the sound IS different, more wide, more defined…
Try it out
Best regards

Klaus

I wonder what the difference actually is? Perhaps it could be measured.

Audio interfaces have internal clocks. Most audio interfaces use oversampling for error correction. So if the interface is running at 44.1 kHz for example, the clock that is reaching the converters is a multiple of times higher than 44.1. 128 or 256 perhaps.

So how does error correction work when slaving to an external clock? The answer is that the internal clock of the interface is still used to generate the oversample rate to the converters. The internal clock is referenced to the external clock.

If the interface is slaving via an ADAT connection, the ADAT clock is a literal 44.1 or 48 kHz. The internal clock of the interface is still in use to provide the oversample.

So how does the external clock improve the internal clock? What could be the cause for a change in "sound" with internal or external sync?

If multiple audio devices are daisy-chained with clock, there is the potential for clock to become out of sync the further it gets from the master device. A central clock generator solves this by providing the same clock to all connected devices. That's why a clock generator makes sense if you have three or more connected digital audio devices.

What happens to the audio if there is a problem with clock? Distortion. Distortion simply means something changes in the waveform as it is passed through the system. If an interface has very good distortion specs that is an indication of a high quality clock.

So I wonder what "wide" and "defined" actually describe?

Dave

[Klaus]

Less jitter, PSU stability ? ( or some kind of clock slaving processing )
I*can* hear more definition and wider stereo pic…when A/B
Setup is:
A: 896mk3 master clock, input analog 1+2 to AES output of the 896mk3
B: 896mk3 ADAT-B in clock,input analog 1+2 to AES output of the 896mk3
and then D/A later in the chain.
We did measure the jitter inside the box years ago and it was … ok for me at the time, I still find it ok !
I'm glad I have it, it has many format converters.

Best

Klaus

[HCMarkus]

Less jitter, PSU stability ? ( or some kind of clock slaving processing )
I*can* hear more definition and wider stereo pic…when A/B
Setup is:
A: 896mk3 master clock, input analog 1+2 to AES output of the 896mk3
B: 896mk3 ADAT-B in clock,input analog 1+2 to AES output of the 896mk3
and then D/A later in the chain.
We did measure the jitter inside the box years ago and it was … ok for me at the time, I still find it ok !
I'm glad I have it, it has many format converters.

Best

Klaus

ABX (blind) test? Confirmation bias is impossible to avoid otherwise. That said, if it works for you, great! We each decide where our $$$ are best spent, including the O/P.

[waxman]

Upgrade AtoD... if you are only doing stereo you may want to spend as much as possible on the best possible interface... If you are only using 2 channels upgrade to the best 2 channels you can get.

Keep the 896 and get a Black Lion upgrade to the pre's or

Apogee
UAD
Lynx
Antelope

Good luck...

[mikehalloran]

I heard yesterday relayed from MOTU support that the UltraLite-mk4 has improved DA/AD converters and better preamps. Since it also has ADAT optical and MIDI, unless you need the second set of ADAT ports, it now has the functionality of the 828mkIII or X if using USB. If you need the inputs of the 896, this will do you little good, of course.

I wonder: Does this means mk4 versions of the other mk3 interfaces will be announced at January NAMM?

I would think that the 828mkIII Hybrid will not get an upgrade since FW is dead as an active spec. Intel never supported it; Apple dropped it in 2012 and TB passes only part of the FW spec. PCs require a 3rd party card.

If the 828 is updated, perhaps an 828XmkII with that second TB port that users have been begging for while keeping USB?

NAMM is less than 2 months away. Let the speculating begin!

[waxman]

Yeah speculating is a blast... so I am stoked just yesterday I sold my UAD quad satellite which was my last FW piece of gear. I have a gazillion 400 and 800 FW cords sitting around... $.10 cents each... lol (just kidding James not selling anything on Mnation.)

However since we all gotta pay big bucks for TB cables I bet there won't be so many of those left over when TB3 USB C becomes the norm. Just when I get everything TB... boom USB type C connector is the state of the art.

Let's see MOTU interfaces... I really think they would be wise to put better pre's in that is good news. When I see how UAD took over for a while with HW and plugs I wonder why MOTU did not beat them to the punch. When I see Slate Digital taking over with Touch Screens and great sounding Subscription Bundles. I'm sure MOTU has what they do and is comfortable but sometimes I wish they would just want to be masters of the universe and kick everyones ass.

I love DP but I can't use their interfaces. I had to buy a touch screen monitor which MOTU could have done years ago. Now everyone is putting one out and nothing from MOTU... that does not take away that DP is the best DAW in the universe. So there is that...

New products from MOTU... hmmmm... how about interfaces with USB 3 C connector or TB 3. With killer mic pre's that compete with Apogee and UAD.

[Empathy]

Wow, great discussion here!
Maybe I'll hang on to the ART for now and see if I notice any difference using that as a master clock. I _do_ have an external mic pre (Really Nice Preamp) that I generally use instead of the built in 896 pre's... I've been meaning to a/b them for a while. I also have a Presonus 8 channel interface with ADAT optical outs that I never use anymore. Maybe I'll compare that as well.
Hey Magic Dave... this is Adam C. (former MOTU alum). Good to see you're still pluggin' away!

[HCMarkus]

New products from MOTU... hmmmm... how about interfaces with USB 3 C connector or TB 3. With killer mic pre's that compete with Apogee and UAD.

How 'bout the 16A and roll your own outboard mic pres. Incredible A/D and D/A!

[waxman]

New products from MOTU... hmmmm... how about interfaces with USB 3 C connector or TB 3. With killer mic pre's that compete with Apogee and UAD.

How 'bout the 16A and roll your own outboard mic pres. Incredible A/D and D/A!

that would be smokin'