Vintage King 47 Shoot Out

[Babz]

Just to clarify, I'm not saying anything good or bad about Slate or Sputnik or any particular product. I'm just saying, for me at least, I need more audio examples to really hear the difference between these mics, and that this video strikes me as more "show" than "tell".

Best,
Babz

[waxman]

This thread is so cool and an example of how Motunation powered by Shooshie and the gang answers questions and brings clarity to our profession. Babz nailed it... Mic shoot outs are pretty sketchy at best. (PS I still love my Sputniks) Shooshie made the point that even a Shure 57 can catch a hit song.

When I found out Bono cuts songs for U2 on a Shure 58 in the control room no headphones I was thinking that has to be Irish Leprechaun magic BS. I have a client that closed headphones really messes with his intonation. I even got the best semi open back. Helped some but not 100%. I put him on the 58 in the control room and problem solved. It was like magic. I was really concerned about bleed. It was less then the bleed from the headphones into my mega buck Blue Bottle Mic when I had him in the iso booth. That blew my mind. Now we start every song in the control room on a 58. Much of the time that's what makes it to the final mix.

Check out how Daniel Lanios had Bob Dylan set up with a 58 and a "big ass wedge" stage monitor in front of Bob. They cut the whole record they did in New Orleans just Bob sitting on a chair in front of Lanois. So Bob Dylan did all his tracks solo to a TR 808 and split leaving Daniel to finish the record. HOLY &^*&$% are you kidding me...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyXYVx5 ... l=CBCMusic

I think anyone seasoned or just starting can greatly benefit from these Motunations threads. I so wish there was something like this when I started... I try to write posts from that perspective of what cuts through the hypothetical and gets on with real world solutions to making great sounding tracks.

I've been accused of being a Slate "fanboy." I'll take that hehehe. I am using the Slate VMS and it does as advertised. For $999 it's a no brainer. My Blue mic is going bye bye and my wallet is better off... Oh btw the Shure Beta 58 stays...

[mikehalloran]

A friend of mine brings his Beta 58 to vocal sessions, waits through all the condensers placed in front of him and, when they finally get frustrated, he pulls his out and moves on. Those of us who have worked with him before know better, of course.

For myself, I hate the overring, proximity effect and distortion inherent in the SM-57/58. Or rather I did till I discovered the problem: These have a 150 Ohm output and were designed to be used with a 600 Ohm input.

Once I got one of these, I started using my 57 and 58 again now and then. It also improves the response on my friend's Beta 58 for the same reason.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CLZCloud

You can actually make a non-powered version with a 1k Ohm potentiometer, a couple of jacks and a box to put them in. Maybe $15 in parts? Either calculate the correct value to get 600 Ohm input or just adjust by ear. A fixed version can be made with an inline connector and a resistor for about $8.

This article goes into better detail but guesses that 500 Ohm is ideal. The exact value is not critical but 1300–2400 Ohm input impedance as found on modern solid state mixers is just wrong on these.

http://www.recordingmag.com/resources/r ... l/330.html

Here's an inexpensive ($99) preamp with a switchable 600 Ohm (Low Impedance) setting plus a number of other features including a USB out. That circuit is designed for ribbon and "transformer balanced dynamic mics".
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeMPpsUSB

Yep. It should be a good match for a SM7, 57, 58 and others. The Betas, though rated 150 Ohm out don't seem to be as sensitive to impedance mismatch but I've already found that a 600 Ohm input load does make a difference.

[Babz]

And they say Steven Tyler did all those Aerosmith records with an SM-58. And Bruce Swedien famously used a Shure SM7 on almost every single Michael Jackson vocal he recorded.

It's really about what works for a particular voice, a particular singer.

I do like mic shootouts, however. This thread inspired me to do some googling and I found quite a few nice ones out there, where you can really hear the difference. Such as:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP37fZmj-XY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imV3gkGwamo
(Warning: this one has an annoying "gunshot" sound between examples. Not cute and downright unnerving, IMO. But despite this, you can definitely hear the difference.)

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/gear-sh ... -c414.html

And many others, all of which show the differences better than the Vintage King example, IMO.

The one flaw with all these examples is that they only use one singer. So you can hear which mic might be best for this singer, but that doesn't mean a different mic might not be better for some other singer with a totally different kind of voice. I'd love to see a mic shootout that uses a few different singers, as well as some instruments.

Best,
Babz

[Shooshie]

The one flaw with all these examples is that they only use one singer. So you can hear which mic might be best for this singer, but that doesn't mean a different mic might not be better for some other singer with a totally different kind of voice. I'd love to see a mic shootout that uses a few different singers, as well as some instruments.

Best,
Babz

That's exactly what I'd like to hear. In fact, it would be most instructive for some engineers to post their "Audio Notebook" in which they show the examples they listened to of various artists with various mics, and explain why they chose the one they used. If done in a database format, one could sort by mic or by artist, and hear examples of the same mic with changing content, or the same content with changing mics. There's a project for someone who knows a lot of engineers. That would be downright instructive. Maybe even do the same for different halls. Then we could sort by X, Y, or Z axes, where Z is concert halls, X is artists, and Y is mics. Or something like that.

Big idea, hard to do. That's why I'm putting it out there for someone else!

Shooshie

[waxman]

The one flaw with all these examples is that they only use one singer. So you can hear which mic might be best for this singer, but that doesn't mean a different mic might not be better for some other singer with a totally different kind of voice. I'd love to see a mic shootout that uses a few different singers, as well as some instruments.

Best,
Babz

That's exactly what I'd like to hear. In fact, it would be most instructive for some engineers to post their "Audio Notebook" in which they show the examples they listened to of various artists with various mics, and explain why they chose the one they used. If done in a database format, one could sort by mic or by artist, and hear examples of the same mic with changing content, or the same content with changing mics. There's a project for someone who knows a lot of engineers. That would be downright instructive. Maybe even do the same for different halls. Then we could sort by X, Y, or Z axes, where Z is concert halls, X is artists, and Y is mics. Or something like that.

Big idea, hard to do. That's why I'm putting it out there for someone else!

Shooshie

hahaha.... Yeah Shooshie I love passing the research buck.... Speaking of bucks!!! If this was a $9,999 mic it would be worth the research. However at $999 even if someone drops $999 for this mic and did not like it. Might cost them $50 bucks. There is a line of people out there waiting to get a VMS. Like the Raven MTi2 people bought them and sold them for more then they paid. So a VMS right now may be actually a money maker... Buy it and use it for a session. Sell it and make lunch money... then do it again.... hahahahah

[buzzsmith]

Well, mine came yesterday and, perhaps, by the weekend I might have some useful reviews!

Buzzy


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