Vintage King 47 Shoot Out

[waxman]

I can't remember hearing or seeing a more well done shootout of anything...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHcBrx9UlKo

[Phil O]

Thanks for the link!

[Robert Randolph]

Cool shootout. It's somewhat surprising how different they all sound. The VMS sounds pretty gritty compared to everything else, but I'm totally down with that.

[bayswater]

I thought I saw something about a link to download the 7 audio files for a closer listen but couldn't find it. Anyone know?

I think I heard two different sounds, and the main difference was at higher levels. I thought the Telefunken and Pearlman did better, but I see that the pre-amp gain was not constant, and can't tell if the singers were a consistent distance from the mics.

[mikehalloran]

I thought I saw something about a link to download the 7 audio files for a closer listen but couldn't find it. Anyone know? ...

Theres a link here where you can email for the individual files.
http://vintageking.com/blog/2016/10/u47-shootout/

[waxman]

Cool shootout. It's somewhat surprising how different they all sound. The VMS sounds pretty gritty compared to everything else, but I'm totally down with that.

Moving the intensity slider on the VMS (virtual) power supply changes the sound of all the mic models pretty dramatically. They set it at 100%. I'm not sure what setting intensity setting would match the other mics but that is always an option.

I really like the VMS. Soon as I got it I put the mic pre directly into the Apollo 16 which is just an A to D with no pre. All 8 microphones came up in one module in the VMR. You can scroll between them like a address book on the iPhone. I recorded a vocal one pass no fixing. I listened back to the 47 and was underwhelmed…

So I started cycling through the mics. There was a line I did that sounded kind of harsh. I looped it.

When I got to the 251 the harshness was completely gone. It was a little freaky. Then I listened to the whole chorus and it sounded like a different singer. I almost fell over. I cycled back through and the other mics characters were immediately apparent. I was like holy cow how did Slate do this?

So after the mic slot in the VMR I put the Slate Neve pre and it got BETTER by A LOT… I goosed the intensity drive a bit and also the amount on the mic… holy #@%!#… then I added the VCC and it sounded better still. Then I added The MONSTER… boom sounded like a record. Then I tried the MODERN compressor and for what I wanted it was an even better sound. I was amazed. On the next insert I put the slate tape plug and it flipped my wagon. This was so fast and so easy it literally saved the vocal.

Last night my client came over and I did it again. DUDE… same thing. But his voice sounded better on the Sony mic. There is no latency and no issues at 128 buffer.


For the client I put a NEVE pre 1073 on the input stage of the UAD mixer and a LA2A grey. He was singing and it was perfect for him. It sounded like the playback. I also added the comfort aux verb and delay. None of the UAD stuff goes to the recorded audio track but when you play back boom… your going through whatever Slate VMS mic and mix rack gear you have inserted. That means you you can wait to commit to the final vocal audio at any time. It becomes a DI vocal just like a DI electric guitar.

So for me once again Slate is on to something very cool. It’s his vision of all in the box digital recording sounding as good or better then the vintage stuff. When you couple that with ease and flexible operation it is a TOTAL GAME CHANGER… It’s like a $200k mic locker for $999. Steven Slate is the very definition of a disrupter. If I was one of the big companies I would be buying him out for whatever it took. Just give him an Island with a hotel and great studio and make him go away and promise not to make any more killer stuff for 10 years. hahahah This guy in 5 years could literally wipeout a half dozen companies.

So the Blue Bottle and mic caps are going on sale immediately. It reminds me of when I got the Raven. I sold the 24 ch of Mackie MCU pro and ended up making $1,500. The Blue bottle and caps should fetch about $4k... at least $3k... that leaves 2 or 3 large for more gear. (Or therapy.)

[labman]

Hey Wax. Thank you for the details. I've had a VMS sitting here in box for two weeks and have not opened it yet. So I certainly appreciate hearing about your experience. Keep the info coming.

[buzzsmith]

Waiting on mine. Sweetwater has 200+ back orders. Looking forward to putting the VMS to a test.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[mikehalloran]

I may bite on the VMS. Sure looks tempting but not because of the 47.

I have a deep bass singing voice and learned over the years that a U47 is the last microphone in the world I should ever use. All of that so-called warmth turns to mud with me.

A U67, 251 or a C12... now we'te getting somewhere but I have never found what I consider the best vocal mic for me. If I can get close for a grand, it's something to investigate.

[waxman]

I may bite on the VMS. Sure looks tempting but not because of the 47.

I have a deep bass singing voice and learned over the years that a U47 is the last microphone in the world I should ever use. All of that so-called warmth turns to mud with me.

A U67, 251 or a C12... now we'te getting somewhere but I have never found what I consider the best vocal mic for me. If I can get close for a grand, it's something to investigate.

I'm guessing you will love the 67 and the 251 in that order... Also the Sony is very cool... But you will know as you go through them it will be HALLELUJAH!!!!

[waxman]

Hey Wax. Thank you for the details. I've had a VMS sitting here in box for two weeks and have not opened it yet. So I certainly appreciate hearing about your experience. Keep the info coming.

Break it out baby!

[labman]

Break it out baby!

Who you calling baby?
Perhaps I should wait till after hurricane??? Unless Steven wants worse case tests.

[waxman]

where are you dude?

[philbrown]

Thanks Waxman for all the excellent info about VMS! I took delivery yesterday and only messed with it on one vocal but I'm impressed so far. I'm not a big Neve guy for vocals generally so it's no surprise I liked the tube pre better - BTW does anyone know what hardware the tube one is emulating? Just curious. It's really smooth in a good way without sounding muddy at all.

We scrolled through the mics after tracking into my Apollo. What a treat to do a mic shootout after the fact- especially when you're recording your own vocals! The models are noticeably different as you would expect– you don't have to squint and strain to hear the differences. We chose the 251 and the M7 for this particular vocal but I could see making different choices per song, even on the same vocalist– why? because we can! I don't own Slate's other VMR plugs but I may invest, but I own so much UAD stuff I don't know if there would be enough difference to warrant the $200. Opinions?

Re-reading your post Waxman I realized I should be EQ'ing at the Apollo (for monitoring but not to the track) as the dry mic sound is BRIGHT to my ears anyway, to the point of unpleasantness IMO. I usually don't need to do that but this calls for a slightly different workflow at least for me.

I've been using the Unison plugs in my Apollo (especially for DI guitar but that's another thread) which I really like so I also want to try this mic through those as well. I'll report back if there's anything intersting to report. Still lusting after the UA Manley Voxbox plug- just waiting for that magic coupon.

Should we start another thread for VMS? I'd like to share info and see what others are doing since it's a rather new approach.

[waxman]

Thanks Waxman for all the excellent info about VMS! I took delivery yesterday and only messed with it on one vocal but I'm impressed so far. I'm not a big Neve guy for vocals generally so it's no surprise I liked the tube pre better - BTW does anyone know what hardware the tube one is emulating? Just curious. It's really smooth in a good way without sounding muddy at all.

We scrolled through the mics after tracking into my Apollo. What a treat to do a mic shootout after the fact- especially when you're recording your own vocals! The models are noticeably different as you would expect– you don't have to squint and strain to hear the differences. We chose the 251 and the M7 for this particular vocal but I could see making different choices per song, even on the same vocalist– why? because we can! I don't own Slate's other VMR plugs but I may invest, but I own so much UAD stuff I don't know if there would be enough difference to warrant the $200. Opinions?

Re-reading your post Waxman I realized I should be EQ'ing at the Apollo (for monitoring but not to the track) as the dry mic sound is BRIGHT to my ears anyway, to the point of unpleasantness IMO. I usually don't need to do that but this calls for a slightly different workflow at least for me.

I've been using the Unison plugs in my Apollo (especially for DI guitar but that's another thread) which I really like so I also want to try this mic through those as well. I'll report back if there's anything intersting to report. Still lusting after the UA Manley Voxbox plug- just waiting for that magic coupon.

Should we start another thread for VMS? I'd like to share info and see what others are doing since it's a rather new approach.

Thanks... yep I am digging the Slate VMS...
- FG-73 is supposed to be a NEVE 1073 Mic Preamp (Transistor, 70ies)
- FG-76 is aimed to be a Siemens/Telefunken V76 preamp (was used a lot in German broadcast consoles, and the infamous Abbey Road REDD.37 - so, tube and 60ies) See Pic below

I was and still am totally addicted to UAD. I have 95% of them. Now I am using UAD 50/50 with Slate. There is a vibe to Slate VMR that is amazing and different from UAD which I like better... I wish UAD would adopt the 500 rack idea. I think that would make it much faster. I would suggest getting the VMR before a Manley Voxbox. I have used the Manley Voxbox on the front end with the Slate M1 but not in the unison position. But any of them work on the front end... neve, uad, ssl, api. It does not matter because none are in the unison slot.

I have not been able to beat the UAD API for drums.

If you get the Slate VMR I would suggest getting CLA Mix tutorial. It would be a great investment. You can probably get a package deal if you look around. You got it going on with some great gear with UAD and Slate. I don't need anything else to make a record.

Yeah go for it! Do another thread on techniques using the VMS. A bunch of people are getting them or have them... but it will need to be based around techniques in DP if you want it in this section of the forum...

This is a good video on the VMS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS33eJY ... chaelWhite

Found this info on the Telefunken mic pre
http://www.tab-funkenwerk.com/id9.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3WUUVa9 ... intageKing
https://www.google.com/search?q=abbey+r ... Z0QtFQM%3A