Metering Recommendations?

[Rick Cornish]

Hi......
I work and mix almost entirely in the box. On a recent soundtrack, my editor commented that my stems were coming in a bit cold. Even though he cuts on an Avid (in the box) he swears by Dorrough (external--hardware) metering. I've been using PSP Triple Meter (http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/too ... iplemeter/) and Brainworx bx_meter (http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_meter) across my main outs.

What would be the advantage (if any) of running an external hardware meter, either digital or analog?
What are you guys using?

[Shooshie]

I can't speak for an external meter. I'm not using one. Rather, the one I have is on my Mackie board, which is pretty subjective.

If your stems are too soft, you might consider recalibrating your monitors in a very simple way: set them to the volume at which you listen to well-mixed commercial CDs. Then mix your tracks accordingly. I found that it caused me to set my in-the-box mixing board and plugins to much better levels that leave a lot of loudness overhead for the final output. To state that more clearly: my final tracks are louder. Much louder.

If you turn your monitors up loud, you'll mix quietly.

Shoosh

[buzzsmith]

Not exactly on topic...

I can't speak to an external meter either, but I do use a Blue Cat meter on the Master Bus.

When I mix a rock or country style project, I will crank the monitors pretty high so I can "feel" it and get the kick to show about -12 on the meter. With the monitor volume still pretty high, I'll add the rest of the drums and the bass.

Then I'll turn down and proceed with the rest of the mix.

Generally, this keeps my final mix in the -5dB range for mastering.

Buzzy


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[mikehalloran]

I'm pretty much with Shooshie on this one.

Tame the transient peaks—probably hundreds of tools available including a few that come with DP.

I have the PSP and Brainworx limiters, too. What do commercial mixes look like on them?

[sonus]

The best practice is to calibrate your system monitors once, according to the K-System.
Some useful articles :
http://www.aes.org/technical/documentDo ... m?docID=65
http://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/monitor-wizard

For speaker level calibration all you need is a sound level meter and a calibrated pink noise.

Calibration pink noise files (look for Pink noise Lt, Rt and stereo files) from Bob Katz' site :
http://www.digido.com/media/downloads/c ... neral.html

I calibrated my monitors to 80db SPL once and since then I enjoy mixing with no worries on how loud or quiet my mixes are.
When I mix ITB, I just put the meter plug (Dorrough) last on the main bus and take care so the RMS level is -16 to -10 db and peaks at -8 to -4db depending on the type of music.
This way you "build" a connection between what you see on the meter and what you actually hear in your room (level wise).
When I need to compare my mix to a reference track I just play the reference (mastered track) at -8 to -12db depending on how hot the mastered track is. I Import the files in DP and turn the track's fader down until they sound equally loud. Needless to say that the reference track's output has to be different than the mix (master) one. Otherwise it will too go through any processors existing on the master bus.

[buzzsmith]

Thanks, Sonus.


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[mhschmieder]

I've bought WAY too many metering plug-ins, but probably the one I've found the most useful is ISL from NuGEN Audio, as it seems to have the easiest-to-follow metering for use at the pre-mastering stage of a final mix, in terms of finding the right balance between peaks and averages.

The calibration notes provided above, are quite useful regardless of metering choice, of course, and I always use some variant on the Bob Katz system.

I like TC Electronics metering a lot too, but forget why I had to shunt it aside in favour of NuGEN Audio for awhile -- it's here somewhere in the forum as I wrote about it at the time.

Since my last Mastering sessions, I have bought two more metering plug-ins that of course promise ever-more useful ways of getting the right mix balance, but haven't used them on a real session yet.

In the end, setting up a workflow that you can remember and not get distracted from, is what counts for the most. Most of these tools can accomplish the same thing. The NuGEN Audio plug-in MIGHT have ONE unique property (and it's why I prefer it) in terms of psycho-acoustics, but I think TC Electronic covers that as well (and after all, their Thomas Lund invented the methodology).

[Rick Cornish]

Thanks, everyone. Great suggestions, all.

What I'm taking away from all this is that loudness can effectively be metered from inside the box and external, hardware metering is not necessary.

Thanks especially to Sonus for the helpful tech links and calibration info.

[kdm]

Rick - watching loudness is going to be more effective than the PSP or Brainworx limiter. Ditto to mshschmeider's recommendations:

http://www.tcelectronic.com/lm1n/

or the Nugen:

http://www.nugenaudio.com/vislm-loudnes ... -au-vst_11

Izotope's Insight is great too:
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/mix/insight.html

And Flux's metering is also excellent, but Flux plugins can be finicky at times (requires Flux Analyzer Essential):

http://www.fluxhome.com/products/analyz ... s_metering

These will all give you weighted metering rather than standard peak (RMS will work too. You can set the loudness system you need - for stems, adhering to ATSC/A85, ITU or EBU specs isn't going to be as necessary, but these can all manage any of the current specs when needed.

If you have an RME interface with Digicheck/Totalmix - great digital metering built into their interfaces - I've checked feature mix levels there with great results). Calibrating your playback levels is the first step.

[Rick Cornish]

Rick - watching loudness is going to be more effective than the PSP or Brainworx limiter.

KDM—in case it makes any difference, I'm not using PSP or Brainworx limiters, I'm using their METERS.
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/too ... iplemeter/
http://www.brainworx-music.de/en/plugins/bx_meter

PSP has a great RMS meter and bx_meter provides peak, RMS, and a representation of dynamic range with M/S function.

[kdm]

The Brainworx RMS metering will give you the best results of the two if loudness is an issue - it is at least easier to see more level detail.

Loudness metering uses frequency weighting so you get comparative loudness rather than simply signal power (RMS). Loudness from the listed plugins is going to be closer to Dorrough metering - and of course you could try Waves Dorrough meter (either the stereo or surround) - it is as reasonably consistent with hardware as a plugin can be from what I hear from mix engineers using it.

For score/stems delivery, overall loudness levels are really going to be up to the mix engineer. Metering loudness (or RMS) will just give you a better reference point.

As long as your levels aren't peaking too low, I would deliver solid peaks just below 0dbFS (unless otherwise requested). Don't worry about trying to push the mix, arrangement, or attempting compresssion/limiting/multiband, etc (that could make the mixer's job more difficult). Your mix engineer can more specifically advise what he needs - i.e. if your peaks are low (-20 to -10?), he might just want you peaking higher so you aren't using as much of the lower dynamic range of the bit depth (losing resolution).

[Rick Cornish]

Is anyone using K-Meter?
http://www.meterplugs.com/kmeter

[mikehalloran]

Izotope's Insight is great too:
https://www.izotope.com/en/products/mix/insight.html

It comes bundled with both Ozone Advanced and RX Advanced have it but have never really explored its potential. Perhaps next project...

[sonus]

Thanks, Sonus.


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You are welcome buzzsmith!

[labman]

Yes to the K-system. That is a must for quick consistent work. Everything gets calibrated to it.

Used to use external metering but for last 12 years or so been using in the box. Originally when we had tom rigs beside our DP ones, used Spectrafoo, then Did use blue cat, but moved away as the weighting wasn't available. (Maybe now it is. Back then I believe they told us they were using no weighting, which isn't accurate for our ears) Loved Inspector XL, but have been using iZotope Insight since it came out and not looking back. It is brilliant, and fits in nicely to the newer loudness standards.