He did it again Slate

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waxman
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by waxman »

labman wrote:
mhschmieder wrote:Well, I await with interest, reports from various people about their workflows with VMS, as I can certainly see how quickly auditioning the sounds could help -- especially if the singer is getting a feed (usually along with a mild touch of reverb) to "inspire" their best performance.
I await this too mh. How does it work for actual tracking? I hate the workflow of re-amping. From an arrangement point of view it seems to always mess up the piece. I dont mind on rare occasion moving away from the chosen mic strip in editing if need be, but I wanna hear what we are cutting when we are cutting it. People play and feel so much better.

So how does this work? Can we hear the full emulation on the way in without delay? Sorry if this is a simple question that should be obvious. Been out of the hardware loop.
2 tracks one with channel strip one without... Just like we do with all guitar tracks. Amp and DI...
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waxman
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by waxman »

monkey man wrote:It's not a full 3D sphere, as you put it, either, Mark, so that might account somewhat for the price point.

It's a cardioid-response source that they'll use to model cardioid-only mics.

There'll possibly be a dynamic and also an electret-condenser source mic down the track, I think, although I read somewhere that it may be possible to model dynamics using the existing condenser mic. Given that off-axis response, saturation characteristics, harmonics, proximity effect and even plosive handling are modelled, I see no reason why dynamics couldn't be accounted for using the current base-line mic, unless I'm missing something obvious.

Speaking of future hardware additions, the current wedge-shaped pre will be offered as a stand-alone expansion for those keen to multi-mic or to not have to re-patch things, and there'll be a 2-channel, rack-mountable pre down the road too. I pressed Steven on this, and even 'though at one point I managed to get a "by the fall" estimate from him, he later moved the goal posts to an unspecified position, citing the unexpected workload in bringing the current line to market, along with all the other pies he and Fabrice have their fingers poked into.

I wanted the rack-mountable pre all along; wedges and whatnot don't have a place in my room, but I took the plunge anyway because Steven refused to even guess as to when the 2-channel version might appear, and besides that, I feared I'd miss out on the free mic pack that required my placing an order before August 31st.

Hopefully there might be something in all that for you.
Man MM... I remember when you were just throwing poo. You graduated to teck poo thrower. I'm impressed...
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waxman
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by waxman »

kassonica wrote: I'm curious though to hear the slate models, but will it stop me buying a high end valve mic.... err nope :D
Fat wallets are a beautiful thing...
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labman
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by labman »

Thanks Monkey. Well laid out.

What about using something like a good Radial to spilt the single output to then feed both talent and DP?
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by mhschmieder »

Aha, cardioid-only; I hadn't noticed that yet.

Although, truth be told, for vocals it's rare I use anything else.

The high-end tube mics tend to have at-the-power-source pattern-switching, but most of them are best known for their performance at the cardioid setting.

Some, however, have a continuous knob vs. detented switches with three to nine positions ranging from super-cardioid to full omni or even half-omni.
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labman
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by labman »

labman wrote:Thanks Monkey. Well laid out.

What about using something like a good Radial to spilt the single output to then feed both talent and DP?
Never mind.... thats a dumb question. They would both still be without the software.
AMPGUI themes - Andy rocks!, 3 macs, MacPro 768GB ram, 16core OS11.7.10, DP11.31, all Waves, all SLATE, PSP, IK multimedia & Audioease plugs, all PAlliance, Softube, tons of NI VI's all air Spitfire, all Audiobro, all Berlin, EW PLAY, LLizard, MachFive3, Kontakt5, Omnisphere, RMX, LASS, all Soundtoys, Lexicon AU's, melodyne and others I know am forgetting, cause I'm old...Also mucho outboard rigs, MTPs, DTP, antelope WC, and 4 control surfaces with Raven.
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monkey man
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by monkey man »

labman wrote:Thanks Monkey. Well laid out.
Hey, my pleasure mate.
labman wrote:What about using something like a good Radial to spilt the single output to then feed both talent and DP?

Never mind.... thats a dumb question. They would both still be without the software.
Maybe, but it could be just the ticket for those, like me, who'd prefer not to have to route it through their interfaces' so-called zero-latency paths for monitoring. Great thought, labman; I hadn't even considered this 'cause it's something I associate with guitar and bass. Ironically, it's exactly what I'll be doing with the Kemper in order to ensure I end up with super-clean tracks for re-amping when required.
mhschmieder wrote:Aha, cardioid-only; I hadn't noticed that yet.
I thought you mightn't have stumbled across that little factoid, Mark.
mhschmieder wrote:Although, truth be told, for vocals it's rare I use anything else.
Exactly, and Slate's surely counting on it.
waxman wrote: Man MM... I remember when you were just throwing poo. You graduated to teck poo thrower. I'm impressed...
LOL Thank you, Greg! That means a lot to me coming from you, matey. I'm just trying to grow up I guess. Endured much pain whilst off the board these past few years, which I could literally feel catalysing my growth along the way. Nothin' like suff'rin' to help focus one's passion and feed the ol' fire in the belly, I reckon. Woohoo!

Here, have some poo just for old-time's sake:

[Flings hefty bolus in the Wax's general direction, disappearing from view without any knowledge as to the accuracy or consequences of the shot...]

[Hollers from around the corner]
That'll be my parting shot, Wax, and everyone else. Love ya'll and see you soon!

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danatkorg
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by danatkorg »

I'm sure that this product will make some people happy. I wouldn't sell a Blue Bottle for it, though.

$1,000 is pretty inexpensive for a mic, a preamp, and bundled software. If you look at what an ultra-transparent preamp costs (think Millennia, Grace, Earthworks), and then at what it costs for a solid-state large-diaphragm mic with low noise, a *fairly* flat response, and a *fairly* well-controlled cardiod pattern (think AKG 414 XLS or Neumann TLM 193, at the low-end), you're talking about at least double that amount - and you still don't have a mic which is, as the Slate website claims, "ultra-linear." It's always possible that Slate has made some sort of hardware breakthrough to deliver these characteristics at a price unachievable by the companies which have specialized in mics and preamps for decades. It just seems unlikely.

I've just started to read about a start-up with a different approach to mic modeling, and they seem to have a more rigorous approach - including being specific about what it can and can't do. More info here: http://townsendlabs.com/sphere-whitepaper/. It's more expensive for less hardware (you need to use your own preamp), but as above, I don't find that surprising. We live in interesting times, that's for sure!
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kassonica
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by kassonica »

waxman wrote:
kassonica wrote: I'm curious though to hear the slate models, but will it stop me buying a high end valve mic.... err nope :D
Fat wallets are a beautiful thing...
so are top end valve mics :D

Ultimately though I would like both :lol:
Creativity, some digital stuff and analogue things that go boom. crackle, bits of wood with strings on them that go twang
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Shooshie
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by Shooshie »

You know, I used to try to do Neumann on a budget. I bought Chinese mics and compared their response curves to Neumann and tried to compensate, and I thought I was doing pretty well. But I never knew for sure. Never knew absolutely that what I was doing was going to give me all that a fine Neumann or AKG would give.

So, I bought a stable of Neumanns and AKGs. Earthworks, too. Even if I was getting close, before, there's something about having these mics that makes the money seem irrelevant. For one thing, I never feel the urge when setting up mics to explain why they will be good, because the people can see what they are. The peace of mind is a boon to anyone setting up mics. It just is.

I have tons of respect for Slate and his company, but I won't be getting his mic simulator. I want my mics to be a constant in my process, not another variable. I don't want to be listening to tracks later and wondering if I'd have nailed it with a real Neumann. When it's not right, I want to know that the mic itself is not likely the problem. Maybe I reveal my ignorance in saying that, but I readily admit that I'm not a microphone designer or engineer. Pretty good at using them, but I'd sure hate to try to make one.

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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by kassonica »

Shooshie wrote:You know, I used to try to do Neumann on a budget. I bought Chinese mics and compared their response curves to Neumann and tried to compensate, and I thought I was doing pretty well. But I never knew for sure. Never knew absolutely that what I was doing was going to give me all that a fine Neumann or AKG would give.

So, I bought a stable of Neumanns and AKGs. Earthworks, too. Even if I was getting close, before, there's something about having these mics that makes the money seem irrelevant. For one thing, I never feel the urge when setting up mics to explain why they will be good, because the people can see what they are. The peace of mind is a boon to anyone setting up mics. It just is.

I have tons of respect for Slate and his company, but I won't be getting his mic simulator. I want my mics to be a constant in my process, not another variable. I don't want to be listening to tracks later and wondering if I'd have nailed it with a real Neumann. When it's not right, I want to know that the mic itself is not likely the problem. Maybe I reveal my ignorance in saying that, but I readily admit that I'm not a microphone designer or engineer. Pretty good at using them, but I'd sure hate to try to make one.

Shooshie
We share a similar point of view :)

what N mics do you have?
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by Killahurts »

The thing I have always been curious about regarding this product is, what kind of absolute consistency must there be between the source mics, to have all the models do the exact same thing for each customer? I know it was touched on earlier here, but I'm still wondering how the great minds at Slate pulled this off- whether it is a matter of a spot-on calibrated test/reference mic, or some kind of electronic "trick", like an encode/decode process, or something else. Maybe there is some "give" in the mic, like a loose pair of jeans, and the software knows how to compensate?

I wasn't really interested in this product until I read here that the saturation of the mic models can be varied, and can even exceed 100%. Now that could be fun. :)
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waxman
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by waxman »

Killahurts wrote:The thing I have always been curious about regarding this product is, what kind of absolute consistency must there be between the source mics, to have all the models do the exact same thing for each customer? I know it was touched on earlier here, but I'm still wondering how the great minds at Slate pulled this off- whether it is a matter of a spot-on calibrated test/reference mic, or some kind of electronic "trick", like an encode/decode process, or something else. Maybe there is some "give" in the mic, like a loose pair of jeans, and the software knows how to compensate?

I wasn't really interested in this product until I read here that the saturation of the mic models can be varied, and can even exceed 100%. Now that could be fun. :)
In the Slate shootout at NRG they tried multiple vintage 251s etc... I have owned a half dozen U87's and they were anything but consistent. Go to any studio with a big mic locker and you will see the vintage great mics labeled, "bright, dull, open, good one, warm etc." What does all that mean? Not consistency.

I like to help people overcome the fear of gear. So here is some anecdotal thoughts. When the AKG C12 came out I bought one... after a couple sessions something was just not right. I tested against a REAL 47 and it was not close. So I went down to my friend at micworks and got another. Then another. Finally the 4th one sounded great and was in league with the vintage.

So I fully expect some inconsistency in the Slate Mic. How anyone overcomes that is anyones guess. Maybe but 5 and send back 3 or 4. At $999 it's not like the tightrope walk of buying a $20k Vintage mic. If you do buy the VMS this I can guarantee you. If you think your particular mic is inferior send it to Slate and they will make it right. Those guys have the most amazing customer support.
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David Polich
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by David Polich »

Steven Slate walks his talk, that's all I can say. My next mic purchase will be this system.

As a side note, Steven is one of the very few CEO's who will reply to an email sent to him
personally. Let me revise that - I can count the number of CEO's who do this with one finger.
I have not encountered better customer support.
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Phil O
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Re: He did it again Slate

Post by Phil O »

The real problem I see with vintage mics is vacuum tubes. NOS tubes are becoming scarce and the few that are being manufactured now are crap as far as I can tell. I think there are some FET mics out there that sound great and I've decided not to invest in anything with tubes. If Slate is getting the vintage tube sound without using actual tubes, I say, "Bravo!" But, I'm not ready to invest in it quite yet. I'm pretty happy with the mics I have. As far as Slate is concerned, I haven't dealt with them personally, but I've heard nothing but good things about them.

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