El Capitan?

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Babz
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El Capitan?

Post by Babz »

Dang, I had just about decided it was safe to upgrade to Yosemite, and now it's no longer available!

Anyone try El Capitan yet?

It's getting to the point where I can't stay at Mountain Lion any longer.

Babz
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Maxxy
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by Maxxy »

I went to El Capitan very early and I don't recall anything significant...it works very well for me
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cuttime
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by cuttime »

Whenever Sierra comes out, El Cap probably won't be around too much longer, either. Been on El Cap for the better part of a year with no ill effects.
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zuul-studios
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by zuul-studios »

So far, I've experienced no significant issues with DP 9.02 and updating to El Capitan (even with it's newer update, 10.11.6).

HOWEVER!! There exists a significant issue between the most current version of El Capitan, OS X 10.11.6, and Adobe's latest versions of its video-editing software programs which requires some "band-aid" problem-solving. Apparently dependent on the video card (like the one in my Mac Pro), opening Adobe's video-related programs like Premiere Pro and After Effects (latest version of each program) will cause the computer to crash with OS X 10.11.6. I experienced this crash. The solution? Delete a specific folder found deep within the Contents folder of the Adobe's video-related programs.

https://forums.adobe.com/thread/2183797
Last edited by zuul-studios on Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Killahurts
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by Killahurts »

Just updated recently from Yosemite. It was way less painful than I thought..

Just yesterday I went from 10.11.5 to 10.11.6, everything works as it should.

FWIW, I upgraded all my drives to SSDs a few weeks before I upgraded to El Cap.

I did notice a definite improvement in the overall speed of my machine after going to El Cap.. I figure it either handles SSDs better than Yosemite, or it's just a more efficient OS.. or both!
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by stubbsonic »

The OP should be read a little as a cautionary. Even if you are not ready for an OS update, boot from an external and download the installer (you can even install it on an external). That way you can access it when you need it.
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mikehalloran
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by mikehalloran »

It's available but may be tricky to download.

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62093

The offer I made in this thread is still good.
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by mikehalloran »

I have installed OS 10.11 on over 30 Macs and I have a bunch more to do before school starts.

Although I had problems with one station, I didn't have to reset to 2015 for the download to work. In any case, it's not an issue for me because the download always starts—that's the important part.

Here's how I do it without having the 2015 issue. Because I have been doing it this way, I didn't know about the issue mentioned in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=62093

Go to the App Store, find OS X El Capitan and begin the download — if it completes and installs, great—ignore the rest of this.

The following is faster but not necessary unless you have a) multiple installs or b) problems.

What I do is begin the download and quit. This puts the flag in your App Store account so that you can always download it again later.

I copy to the Desktop a zipped copy of the complete download that I keep on a USB stick and double-click to decompress.

Run the installer.

When done, delete both the zip file and installer and empty Trash. Repair Permissions by copying the following command and pasting in Terminal:
sudo /usr/libexec/repair_packages --repair --standard-pkgs --volume /

You can get a copy from anyone who has downloaded it from the App Store before. Compressed, it is 6.22G. Yesterday, the download was OS 10.11.5—today, it's 10.11.6 according to the App Store. It is important to zip it before uploading to Dropbox or loading onto a USB or SDHD card—you might not be able to run it on a different Mac if this is not done (been there, made the mistake, helped others with the same).

I can upload it to a Dropbox account or FTP Server.
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bayswater
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by bayswater »

Babz wrote:Dang, I had just about decided it was safe to upgrade to Yosemite, and now it's no longer available!
It is available to those who have or had it, so it shows up on your Apple account as a "purchase" in the App Store.

The thing to do is to download the OS X versions as they come out, and also to download the combo update that is released shortly before a new OS X version is released. That way you have the ability to install any version and to update it to its most mature release.
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Babz
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by Babz »

OK, thanks everyone! I guess I will just go to El Cap before Sierra drops.

These are the main apps I'm concerned about:

DP 9, K9U, Arturia V-collection 3, UAD, RX4, Melodyne 4, Adobe CS6.

Do all these work with El Cap?

Thx!

Babz
Last edited by Babz on Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by MIDI Life Crisis »

10.11.5 pervious versions of Finale work.

10.11.6 ONLY version F2014.5 will work.

Final Cut Express will not work under any version of El Cap.
Snapper will not work.
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mikehalloran
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by mikehalloran »

Adobe CS6 and any other 32bit app requiring Java - you'll have to download the Java 6 run time from Apple.
https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1572?locale=en_US

For many other apps, you will also need the Java 8 run time from Oracle. You don't want the SDK
https://www.java.com/en/
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Babz
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by Babz »

mikehalloran wrote:Adobe CS6 and any other 32bit app requiring Java - you'll have to download the Java 6 run time from Apple.
https://support.apple.com/kb/dl1572?locale=en_US

For many other apps, you will also need the Java 8 run time from Oracle. You don't want the SDK
https://www.java.com/en/
Can both "run times" coexist on the same machine?
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mikehalloran
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by mikehalloran »

Can both "run times" coexist on the same machine?
They probably do already. But yes.

JRE (Java Runtime Environment) 6 is 32bit and supports some 64bit functionality. JRE 8 is 64bit only.

You will generally see a message that you require the JDK (Java Developers Kit) to run Java commands from Terminal. Absolutely true—if you ever have that need and most of us don't.

Open System Preferences and see if you have a Java panel. Click on this—it will open a second panel that checks if your JRE 8 run time is up to date and you can update from there in the second tab.

Afterwards, it will open a browser window to check. Safari and Chrome will fail this and give you errors. No worries. Closing and reopening the Java panel under System Preferences will verify that you have the latest version.

JRE 6 predates Oracle's acquisition of Sun so the Mac version is only available from Apple through that link (older versions of JRE 6 will not work in El Cap). Those of us with Finale (any version) and Masterwriter 2 still require JRE 6 as do many Adobe products and other apps.
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mhschmieder
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Re: El Capitan?

Post by mhschmieder »

As this is what I do for a living, I’ll elaborate a bit beyond what Mike already said.

The two versions of Java are not seen as remotely related to one another, due to how Apple's Java (which was supposedly end-of-life after the Java 6 to Java 7 transition but does keep getting security and compatibility updates anyway) interacts with the operating system. It is built in, as opposed to being something with its own self-contained dependencies. That's the super-short version of the story.

Historically, there have been three ways that applications access Java. One is through the browser (something I highly deprecate -- wrong tool for the job in my opinion), a related way is through Java WebStart on the desktop (which emulates the way Java and other web technologies interact between a browser environment and the OS and therefore does nasty stuff like mangle application download names and store them in similar areas to cached web pages), and the preferred way (officially stated so by Oracle) is to package Java with your desktop app so it is fully self-contained dependency-wise.

Unfortunately, Adobe and Oxygen XML are two major application suites that never pushed forward to either reference an installed Java 7 or Java 8 from Oracle or to self-package a modern copy of Java.

It isn't a matter of feature compatibility per se, but rather how Java is installed when it is Apple vs. Oracle. For many years, Sun wanted nothing to do with Macs and left that job to Apple. But as Apple began more and more to cripple Java and Sun got bought by Oracle, the new owners of the language (that's a simplification too, but Oracle is the primary steward), Oracle decided to "normalize" how it is dealt with across ALL platforms (even including mobile, but that's a work-in-progress and has now been off-loaded to an amazing third-party outfit called Gluon).

As mentioned earlier, Java 6 and earlier versions on the Mac, were written by Apple to be a core part of the OS, almost like Core Audio, and even had some support in the Xcode developer suite.

The biggest downside was that the vendors of desktop apps in particular, had little to no control over what version of Java their app would use. And that is the crux of the problem, and why applications that remain tethered to Apple's Java are helpless without that specific flavour of Java being installed on the computer at the precise location that Apple used to place it when they still packaged it with the OS updates (something they don't do anymore).

I spent a good deal of time a few months ago trying to figure out what part of Adobe Illustrator uses Java (I think that's the only product that does). I did figure it out at the time, and wrote it up somewhere (for work), but forget, as it was unexpected and not my original assumption. Oxygen XML is at the very least using XML Bindings libraries from Java. Actually, maybe Illustrator is as well.

Hopefully I struck the proper balance of too much detail and not too much abstraction. The main point is that you can have as many versions of Java as you want on your computer, and some apps will reference a copy directly (or a minimum version compatibility) while Java Preferences may give you some control at your end; most vendors (such as my own company) prefer to now be in full control by packaging Java with the app itself, which also reduces headaches for end users.

For those worried about the often publicized "Java Security Issues", those are almost exclusively relegated to the browser environment and not the desktop application environments. Browsers are moving targets and much more difficult to make secure. It's another reason I deprecate ANY primary language for use in browser hosts, unless using Google's WebKit or serving up pages that are consumed as HTML5 and the like.

Anyway, don't worry about having both Java 6 and Java 8 on your system; there is no app that is capable of getting confused about which to use, as the access from the app to the JRE is completely different and has to be programmed by the developer, so especially isn't going to be ambiguous in older code that only knew about Apple's self-package Java 6 and earlier.
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