Backwards compatibility with DP 7

[Gone To Lunch]

I have recently upgraded to DP 9.

However my writing partner is still using 7.24, on a pre-intel Mac, and I want to be able to share MIDI files with her.

To install DP 9 on my new Intel mac, I installed 7.24 then bought the upgrade.

When I just tried opened a MIDI file in my 7.24, the MOTU instruments would not open, Modulo, Proton etc, and I found they did not show up in the plug-ins in the preferences. I presume that my Modulo and Proton etc are now configured for DP 9, so won't open in 7.24 ?

Is there any way I can get round this, and have a functional 7.24 implementation as well as my DP 9, so I can swap files with co-writer until she upgrades herself ?

I have four drives in my Mac, two that have OS X installed.

[mikehalloran]

The paths to the plugins are corrupted. Easily fixed.

Take your DP 7.24 CD, start to run the installer. When you get to Easy Install, find the Uninstaller in the drop-down menu and run it. When done, run the installer again.

The 7.24 Uninstaller will mess up DP 9. It has no Uninstaller — just run its installer again and you'll be fine.

When done, repair Permissions. If Yosemite or earlier, do this in Disk Utility. In El Capitan, run the following command in Terminal: sudo /usr/libexec/repair_packages --repair --standard-pkgs --volume /

[Saintmatthew]

You should be able to exchange files with your writing partner no problem. I use DP 9 for mixing and the new plugs, but open the files in 8 for live shows with no issues. From what I can tell, the file version of 6.02+ is the same and interchangeable in any version after that.

[mikehalloran]

There are many incompatibilities between 7 and 9.

Besides new features, some of the DP 7 plugs are now included in the Trim plugin—these will show up missing when 7 files are opened in 8 or 9 and vise-versa. The functionality is still there but it's handled differently.

Otherwise, a project done in 7.24 on one machine should open fine on the other as long as privileges and permissions are intact. The way to ensure this is to zip/archive/compress the file before uploading to Dropbox or however you are sharing files (email attachments do this automatically).

Missing DP plugins is an installation issue. I have had this happen a few times after installing a new plug or VI. It also happened with Mavericks OS updates for some reason. Uninstalling & reinstalling DP 7; reinstalling DP 8 or 9 fixes this 100% of the time for me.

[Shooshie]

Practically speaking, I think you could do one of the following and manage a working relationship between the two DAWs:

• 1) Exchange files saved for version DP6, maintaining compatibility at the cost of saving current features.
• 2) Exchange files saved for current (DP9) version with limited functionality for your writing partner, while you keep the final mix on your machine.
• 3) Maintain an older OS X setup with DP7 on your machine, which is kept totally separate from DP9.
• 4) Delete DP9 and reinstall DP up to the version that your partner is using, not installing DP9 at all.

Alternatively you could:

• 5) Get your partner a new computer.

Each method has its pros and cons, and each requires a certain discipline. If you're going to be doing a lot of this, it may be worth it to pool your resources and buy your partner a used but late-model Intel Mac so that you can forget about these problems entirely. I've just helped a friend upgrade to a recent Macbook Pro for similar reasons, and she is wildly enthusiastic about it. Few people would turn down such an upgrade, given the unencumbered choice.

But let's look at options 1 and 2:
I believe that DP7, 8, and 9 all read the same file format. The differences, then, would be details like the plugins that Mike mentions, where certain plugins will not be loaded properly or even appear at all in the earlier version of DP.

The worst case scenario is that you save the files in DP6 format (File/Save-As, then use menu at bottom of save dialog), and that both of you respect whatever limits that imposes on your respective functions within DP. To me, this is preferable to trying to maintain two separate versions of DP under the same operating system on the same computer. Using either of these methods, you should at least find that YOUR plugins and instruments work whenever you load them.

Any version of DP is usually able to open any file saved by a previous version with full functionality of the file except for user settings within some plugins. The reverse of that is not necessarily true. That is, an older version of DP can't open a file saved by today's DP9.02. When dealing with complex files across broad stretches of time, it is to be expected that upgrades in plugins would render many of the older settings inaccurate. Nevertheless, sometimes you will be pleasantly surprised to find that even the old user settings are translated and understood. It's just not something you can depend on. Backward compatibility has its limits; the broad strokes are still there, but details are a gamble.

So, reach an agreement on who needs to be the key mixer, and go with the method (1, 2, 3, or 4) listed above which is most compatible with your goals.

When I worked regularly for years with the same writing partner, I maintained both computer systems, and I always kept us at the same versions of everything. That is by far the easier way to do it, though the cost is admittedly higher at first. Sometimes you just chalk it up to the cost of doing business, and you don't look back. Otherwise, you'll spend a certain amount of your time troubleshooting compatibility issues between your two setups, and you'll always feel a little insecure about that. That has a real cost in time spent each day trying to figure out what isn't working right; for me the preferred option is to use the same versions of everything.

Shooshie

[mikehalloran]

3) Maintain an older OS X setup with DP7 on your machine, which is kept totally separate from DP9

I'll disagree with this one with the following caveats:

If you are using PPC only 3rd party plugins then the only way to maintain compatibility on an Intel machine is for it to be running OS 10.5 or 10.6.x with Rosetta enabled.

Some 32bit 3rd party party plugs became incompatible with OS 10.7, 10.8.2, 10.9.x, 10.10.x and 10.11 in turn—depends on the plug. For many plugs there is a workaround (32Lives) but for a few, there is none. The plugs supplied by MOTU with DP 7 do not have this issue.

Otherwise, you can run DP 7.24 in any version of the Intel only OS including El Cap. I am one of many who keeps DP 7.24 working on the same drive as DP 8 and 9. I occasionally open up old 32bit DP files—sometimes to update and convert; other times to make small tweaks.

With files created on other Macs, as long as they are zipped first, I no longer have any issues.

[Phil O]

Slightly off topic, but I though it might be a good idea to ask here.

I need to access an old MIDI file. I think it was exported from DP7 or earlier. I'm getting an end of file error from DP. I can open it in Finale, but even when I then export that from Finale the newly created file still gets the error in DP. Any ideas?

Phil

[mikehalloran]

Slightly off topic, but I though it might be a good idea to ask here.

I need to access an old MIDI file. I think it was exported from DP7 or earlier. I'm getting an end of file error from DP. I can open it in Finale, but even when I then export that from Finale the newly created file still gets the error in DP. Any ideas?

Phil

Weird. What is the exact error? How long is it?

[Phil O]

unexpected end of file (-39)

How long is the file? As in file size? 238KB

[mikehalloran]

unexpected end of file (-39)

This is an OS error normally caused by a file becoming corrupted while being saved. There are a number of old threads on this and it appears that DP 7.23 fixed this.

What I am finding strange is that you can import into Finale but, when exported, it saves the corrupt bit(s).

See if you can open it in QuickTime 7.6.6 and export it from there. QT 7 has saved my bacon many times over the years as it imports and exports files. I've never tried to fix a MIDI file with it, however.

Since it opens in Finale you might try this: open in Finale. Export as MusicXML. Now open the XML file in Finale and export that as MIDI.

[Phil O]

...try this: open in Finale. Export as MusicXML. Now open the XML file in Finale and export that as MIDI.

Briliant!!!! That worked. Mike I owe you a drink. The next time we get together, I'm buying.

Thanks, my friend. You saved me a chunk of work.

Philippe

BTW, I didn't even know Quicktime opened MIDI files. But, naw, it wouldn't open that file either. I still don't get what was going on in Finale, but hey, don't argue with success. Thanks again.

[mikehalloran]

That worked?!?!? I was throwing out a half-assed Hail Mary when I suggested it.

I will have to tell Michael Good about this if he doesn't drop by and comment. He invented MusicXML and is now a VP at MakeMusic. We're doing an opera together this summer.

[Phil O]

Cool. Thanks again.