Good to know New Macs
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This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
This forum is for most discussion related to the use and optimization of Digital Performer [MacOS] and plug-ins as well as tips and techniques. It is NOT for troubleshooting technical issues, complaints, feature requests, or "Comparative DAW 101."
- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Good to know New Macs
The thing about the cheese graters is the heat. Oh my god, the heat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKvURliwsfY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKvURliwsfY
- HCMarkus
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Re: Good to know New Macs
Nothin' compared to my G5 Quad. OK, I guess it is a cheesgrater, too, but it could have been sold as a space heater.MIDI Life Crisis wrote:The thing about the cheese graters is the heat. Oh my god, the heat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKvURliwsfY
My studio MP sits in its own air conditioned machine closet, cool and quiet, along with the hard drives, router, printer, and UPS. The only thing it heats up are the grooves, baby.
- Shooshie
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Re: Good to know New Macs
My giant MacPro tower runs very cool. I never hear the fan. The only time I started hearing things was when I let it go about a year without vacuuming, apparently. (I don't know how long it went) A layer of dust about 1 inch thick blanketed everything inside it. Once I vacuumed that out, the fan noise stopped.MIDI Life Crisis wrote:The thing about the cheese graters is the heat. Oh my god, the heat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKvURliwsfY
This has been the most amazing Mac design ever. I'm so sad to see it go, though with luck I may be able to use mine for years longer.
Shooshie
|l| OS X 10.12.6 |l| DP 10.0 |l| 2.4 GHz 12-Core MacPro Mid-2012 |l| 40GB RAM |l| Mach5.3 |l| Waves 9.x |l| Altiverb |l| Ivory 2 New York Steinway |l| Wallander WIVI 2.30 Winds, Brass, Saxes |l| Garritan Aria |l| VSL 5.3.1 and VSL Pro 2.3.1 |l| Yamaha WX-5 MIDI Wind Controller |l| Roland FC-300 |l|
Re: Good to know New Macs
When it's cold here I don't mind the heat, I start turning on the tube gear!
Used 2012 Mac Pro 3.33 6 Core 16g ram 10.8.5 DP 7.24
- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Good to know New Macs
It's a verifiable fact that when I moved to the trash can my electric bill dropped by about $50/month.
- mikehalloran
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Re: Good to know New Macs
more than that for me when I went from my G5 to my iMac. Yosemite improved the energy savings as did replacing the drive with an SSD.MIDI Life Crisis wrote:It's a verifiable fact that when I moved to the trash can my electric bill dropped by about $50/month.
I gave my G5 to a Santa Cruz based guitar makes to run in his unseated office.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
- mikehalloran
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Re: Good to know New Macs
Yes, these are designed to be high end video workstations. In that context, they are bargains.jloeb wrote:But come on Mike, there's no doubt that multiprocessor machines have gone up in price relatively speaking. I think the problem for many (including, i must admit, me) is that our comparative basis is founded on a longing for what is now looking like a golden era of MacPros (the Silver Towers), at least for audio. I have a 12x 3.46GHz. I've owned the box since 2009 (!!!), upgraded CPUs and storage myself and I still can feel no limits on it CPU wise. I've owned and modded computers since 1983, Macs since 1989 and I don't remember any time during that period where the value proposition was so good as it was in the era just pre-trashcan.mikehalloran wrote:What does that mean? They are more expensive than iMacss and Windows machines but a lot less than the UNIX stations designed to handle the same tasks.nk_e wrote:The prices - even on refurbished - are still breathtaking.
The focus has moved on - video is the new audio, Apple is now king - and, if we're just about music and audio, we're now expected to pay for gear that lets us play in a game we have little participatory interest in. Otherwise you settle for prosumer computers - or maybe high end laptops. New normal (already a hoary old phrase, that).
Does audio only really need a 12 core nMP or what is likely to be the new 16 core? Maybe, I don't know. Hasn't come up for me.
When I look at an update for me, I'm looking at the 6 core. That may change next year when I'm ready to buy. As I get more into VIs, I may decide to get some iron capable of the heavy lifting.
I have no interest in a 5.1 or upgraded 4.1. I've retired my PCI hardware and have moved on.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
Re: Good to know New Macs
That's the thing: if you really load up that mixer with fx/vis, then you love more parallelism like the ocean loves the shore.mikehalloran wrote:Does audio only really need a 12 core nMP or what is likely to be the new 16 core? Maybe, I don't know. Hasn't come up for me.
When I look at an update for me, I'm looking at the 6 core. That may change next year when I'm ready to buy. As I get more into VIs, I may decide to get some iron capable of the heavy lifting.
When it's time to move on, sure, I'll move on. But for the same musical punch, that looks to be 'spensive.
- HCMarkus
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Re: Good to know New Macs
Since installing solar, my electric bill has dropped, too. Right off the face of the earth.MIDI Life Crisis wrote:It's a verifiable fact that when I moved to the trash can my electric bill dropped by about $50/month.
The great thing about this forum is it makes us informed users. Everyone makes his choice, but our sharing of info helps each make the best choice given his/her particular situation. I appreciate everyone's input!
- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Good to know New Macs
If I owned my dwelling it would have been solar long ago. Good for you! HKM!!
Re: Good to know New Macs
The reality is that we have hit a physical limit on what they can do with CPU's. There are rumors about next gen CPU technology, quantum computing, etc..but those are a long ways off. The truth is we are likely to get stuck with very little increase in CPU crunching power for quite a while into the future from here. The amount of money it will take to improve it more will be very large and there are much more economical ways to improve computing and get people to buy new computers for other reasons. So they will focus on that.
I think we will see the elimination of platter Hard disk drives. They will go the way of the floppy disk. You all see this already. That trend will continue. For the actual motherboard, we will see improvements in the way data is shoveled around...better buss architectures, faster bus speeds, faster communication of data from here to there, etc. Some people will try to use multi-CPU setups to get more cpu, but for the vast majority of consumers, this is overkill, they don't need that, so it will not become mainstream.
Also we will see a LOT of memory added to machines. 128GB, 256GB and up from there. The next way to make everything run faster is to cache anything and everything you possibly can. So instead of computing things on the fly, you compute all possible permutations and cache it all in memory, load it from SSD, etc..in other words the approach to writing faster software will be to use techniques which in the past would have required storage and communication speeds that were not available. As more storage and faster shoveling of data around becomes possible, then completely different approaches will be taken to optimize computing rather then relying on every increasing CPU speeds to crunch it through.
DP 9.1 is a prime example of that with next gen pre gen. That would not have been possible a decade ago due to storage requirements. Now storage is getting cheap enough to do it. But people will do stuff like that more and more...as the amount of data that can be stored in fast access memory will go up..and the speed of moving that data around without burdening the CPU. That's where the industry is going to focus their attention in the next decade in my opinion.
So all that being said... I have a 12x3.33 tower mac and its as fast as anything I can imagine. Its going to be outdated eventually, but not by CPU, but rather by new motherboards that can take a terabyte of ram and move data across busses at blinding speeds...and as the software takes advantage of that, it will no longer be performance competitive. For now though..I personally think those are the value sweet spot...the trash can macs don't bring enough to make up for the price difference.
ps - if they make a MBP with a touch screen I'm buying one!
I think we will see the elimination of platter Hard disk drives. They will go the way of the floppy disk. You all see this already. That trend will continue. For the actual motherboard, we will see improvements in the way data is shoveled around...better buss architectures, faster bus speeds, faster communication of data from here to there, etc. Some people will try to use multi-CPU setups to get more cpu, but for the vast majority of consumers, this is overkill, they don't need that, so it will not become mainstream.
Also we will see a LOT of memory added to machines. 128GB, 256GB and up from there. The next way to make everything run faster is to cache anything and everything you possibly can. So instead of computing things on the fly, you compute all possible permutations and cache it all in memory, load it from SSD, etc..in other words the approach to writing faster software will be to use techniques which in the past would have required storage and communication speeds that were not available. As more storage and faster shoveling of data around becomes possible, then completely different approaches will be taken to optimize computing rather then relying on every increasing CPU speeds to crunch it through.
DP 9.1 is a prime example of that with next gen pre gen. That would not have been possible a decade ago due to storage requirements. Now storage is getting cheap enough to do it. But people will do stuff like that more and more...as the amount of data that can be stored in fast access memory will go up..and the speed of moving that data around without burdening the CPU. That's where the industry is going to focus their attention in the next decade in my opinion.
So all that being said... I have a 12x3.33 tower mac and its as fast as anything I can imagine. Its going to be outdated eventually, but not by CPU, but rather by new motherboards that can take a terabyte of ram and move data across busses at blinding speeds...and as the software takes advantage of that, it will no longer be performance competitive. For now though..I personally think those are the value sweet spot...the trash can macs don't bring enough to make up for the price difference.
ps - if they make a MBP with a touch screen I'm buying one!
5,1 MacPro 3.46ghz x 12 cores,96gb, Monterey (OpenCore), Lynx AES16e-50+X32
-
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Re: Good to know New Macs
From last November:
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/ ... -a-failure
I'm one of those old-school users who likes the tower form-factor. I'd I don't know what I'll do when my 2009 Mac Pro bites the dust, but for now it's doing what I need it to do.
All the major apps I use (DP, Sibelius, Pro Tools) are cross-platform, so Windows is an option...
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/ ... -a-failure
I'm one of those old-school users who likes the tower form-factor. I'd I don't know what I'll do when my 2009 Mac Pro bites the dust, but for now it's doing what I need it to do.
All the major apps I use (DP, Sibelius, Pro Tools) are cross-platform, so Windows is an option...
Bob
M1 Max Mac Studio - 64 GB RAM - macOS 14.1.2
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M1 Max Mac Studio - 64 GB RAM - macOS 14.1.2
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Metric Halo ULN-8 mk4
- MIDI Life Crisis
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Re: Good to know New Macs
Same here. PCs are definitely an option.
- mikehalloran
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Re: Good to know New Macs
Except for archival storage. They haven't cracked that nut yet. Otherwise, I agree.I think we will see the elimination of platter Hard disk drives.
I am updating my Time Capsules to 6T HHDs as AppleCare runs out. Otherwise, it's SSDs only going forward.
Agreed. I'm fighting the battle on the home front. She does not want to do it in pieces, rewire, insulation, AC, Solar etc. Instead, she wants to do it all at once and things just keep coming up. This means that none of it has been done.If I owned my dwelling it would have been solar long ago. Good for you! HKM!!
It's going to have to be something better than Win10 before I can face Windows again. I was ok with NT and XP on my work computers from 1996–2009. I even did tech support at my companies. Once I started working at home and started using my Macs again in 2007, it wasn't long before making the transition. The second my company ditched Lotus Notes, I found very little use for my PC and don't fire it up even once a year. I could see using that IBM tablet if I had to, I suppose.PCs are definitely an option.
DP 11.31; 828mkII FW, micro lite, M4, MTP/AV USB Firmware 2.0.1
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
2023 Mac Studio M2 8TB, 192GB RAM, OS Sonoma 14.4.1, USB4 8TB external, M-Audio AIR 192|14, Mackie ProFxv3 6/10/12; 2012 MBPs Catalina, Mojave
IK-NI-Izotope-PSP-Garritan-Antares, LogicPro X, Finale 27.4, Dorico 5.2, Notion 6, Overture 5, TwistedWave, DSP-Q 5, SmartScore64 Pro, Toast 20 Pro
Re: Good to know New Macs
What's the problem with Windows 10? I have no experience with it, but haven't heard of any significant issues, at least no more than other versions.mikehalloran wrote:It's going to have to be something better than Win10 before I can face Windows again.
2018 Mini i7 32G 10.14.6, DP 11.3, Mixbus 9, Logic 10.5, Scarlett 18i8