Drum tracks, samples and loops for 3/4, 12/8, 7/8 metres

[tonyton]

Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere but I haven't been able to find anything. I write quite a lot of songs in 12/8, 3/4, 7/8 etc and it is really difficult to find drum loops which are suitable for these metres. I notice that in some sequencers there is a drum editor where you can manipulate the included drum tracks to quickly work in a range of metres (admittedly, with varying degrees of success). Is there anything in DP that replicates this facility which I may have missed? Or is there anything in Machfive 3 whereby I could manipulate loops or kits in a similar sort of way? I know I'm being lazy but I'm not a drummer and I find that pre-recorded loops and samples are much more convincing that any MIDI-based alternatives which I might create from scratch. Thanks in advance.

DP 7.24
MachFive 3
Mac Pro
OSX 10.11.4

[stubbsonic]

Forgive me if I steer this thread a little off track; but just to say it has been a consistent source of disappointment with newer technology (especially in iOS) that rhythmic possibilities are hopelessly limited to 4/4 and 16th notes. Some provide triplets and 3/4. Fewer still provide other meters but not tuplets. There are some exceptions, but I won't veer too far off-topic.

It is one of DP's crowning strengths, that it does provide lots of flexibility and might in meters.

To your original question, you might find some 12/8 options in a swing 4/4 category (or shuffle), but not as cool as Zimbabwean stuff, etc. 3/4 shouldn't be too difficult to find. 7/8 seems to be more "task-specific"--

I'd do a search for MIDI drum loops in odd meters and see what you find.

[tonyton]

Thanks - yes I've done that in the past. It's just such a tedious process and I was just sort of hoping that there might be a magic bullet in DP which I'd missed somehow. And I forgot to mention my frustrations with triplets - I totally agree with you. And don't get me going about 3/4 being an 'odd' or 'unusual' metre...!

[billf]

Here are some:

https://groovemonkee.com/collections/mi ... drum-loops

https://www.toontrack.com/product/monst ... dd-meters/

https://www.toontrack.com/product/monst ... dd-meters/

https://www.toontrack.com/product/metal-fusion-MIDI/

[HCMarkus]

I'd say roll your own!

[mikehalloran]

I'd say roll your own!

One of the tools that the PROs use to get their members paid is to try and listen to everything on the Internet, especially Internet radio and streaming broadcast.

BMI is the only one that really talks about it. They bought Shazam for that express purpose (and sold it a couple of years ago when it jeopardized their non-profit status—it's in one of their annual reports). As far as I know, they still use the technology. ASCAP has something similar and I can't believe that SESAC isn't doing the same thing

This can only work when there are enough unique identifiers to identify a track as having been recorded by a specific artist so that the songwriters can be properly credited.

The software is surprisingly accurate up to a point. Using canned loops really messes with this process. Awhile back, I tried to use Shazam on a track to ID the writers. I ran it 35 times and got 35 different responses—I gave up and still have no idea who it was. I later figured out which Apple Loop they used.

Indeed, roll your own. If you insist on using pre-packaged loops, slice and dice so that they can't be identified as any but your own. What if you have radio play and neither your PRO nor SoundExchange know it's you? Trust me—they'll credit someone.

Don't let the wrong person get paid.

[tonyton]

Ah - I'd never thought of it from that point of view. But what about the drummer edit thingy in Logic - I haven't played with it much but it seems that if you change metre in the sequence it attempts to replicate that in the drums. Or have I got that wrong?

[frankf]

If I can't record a drummer (we all remember them right? , I use Stylus RMX or any REX or MIDI file to import MIDI to DP tracks and MIDI edit to get the rhythmic pattern I want. I have fun doing this, actually, coming up with musical patterns. My inner Brubeck I think.

[mhschmieder]

Actually, there's LOTS of stuff out there that covers odd time meters, and all of it quite well done.

I don't know if it's still all available for sale, as some libraries get deleted over time even though MIDI has "permanent compatibility".

The best ones by far are from Twiddly.BITS as they used top-notch players like Bill Buford and hooked them up to super-advanced controllers to capture every essence of their playing.

I do NOT recommend audio loops for drums (or much of anything), as there are too many artifacts when stretching etc. I do occasionally convert them to MIDI using Melodyne, however.

I'm working far too many hours these days to have time to itemize all of my recommendations, but I would have to do the same research as anyone else to find CURRENT links for Twiddly.BITS as the marketing has changed a lot.

Dave Polich might know. Former member of Yes runs the company that does them, and they have often been linked to Yamaha marketplaces. MOTIFmart e.g. I haven't visited since all the rebranding of those sites. That's why Dave might know as he's still involved with Yamaha.

Other than that, there's some good stuff from Groove Monkee and Toontracks. Don't overlook the stuff from Platinum Samples either; top-notch players like Peter Erskine.

My current jazz album makes heavy use of odd meters. Another nice thing about the Twiddly.BITS libraries is that they cover so many alternate kit based patterns, and I do a lot of latin so it's working out great.

[mikehalloran]

... but I would have to do the same research as anyone else to find CURRENT links for Twiddly.BITS as the marketing has changed a lot.

This is where I found them:

http://www.midisamples.com/

[stubbsonic]

Looks like that link next takes you to keyfax which seems to be handling those twiddly.bits collections now.

http://www.keyfax.com/index.php/softwar ... mples.html

It isn't clear which collection would be the best bet for 12/8, 3/4 & 7/8.

Their use of the term "MIDI Samples" seems needlessly confusing. The examples sound pretty good-- however, the key to getting successful drum tracks from MIDI is a combination of good MIDI, good sounds, good editing, careful application, and using your ears.

[wdegillio]

Here's another possibility.

http://www.oddgrooves.com/loop-shop/sev ... -drumming/

[mikehalloran]

Here's another possibility.

http://www.oddgrooves.com/loop-shop/sev ... -drumming/

Well, they certainly want to drum up business, don't they? If you let them email you, they offer 60 free loops plus another each month.
http://www.oddgrooves.com/free-drum-loops-2/

I like the disclaimer: . . . We haven’t quantized anything which means that you’ll get drum loops that sound alive, organic and realistic. You want perfectly lined up 16th-notes? Get a drum machine.


OK, I have zillions of loops and have never used one. It doesn't mean that I can't get inspired by them, however. I was very good at programming my RX 11 once upon a time.

[bayswater]

Well, they certainly want to drum up business, don't they? If you let them email you, they offer 60 free loops plus another each month.
http://www.oddgrooves.com/free-drum-loops-2/

I like the disclaimer: . . . We haven’t quantized anything which means that you’ll get drum loops that sound alive, organic and realistic. You want perfectly lined up 16th-notes? Get a drum machine.


OK, I have zillions of loops and have never used one. It doesn't mean that I can't get inspired by them, however. I was very good at programming my RX 11 once upon a time.

How can you refuse loops from someone who refuses to quantize? I've never used one either, but they seem to have some unusual stuff. The downside: the free monthly loop is still sitting at February.

EDIT: Make that October 2105 -- the date on the recent free monthly loop. Are these guys still around?

[mhschmieder]

Nothing else comes even remotely close to Twiddly.BITS. It's rare I have to look at any of my others, except occasionally for Platinum Samples just to cover a wider range of jazz patterns.

They explain why they call them MIDI "samples" and it isn't at all confusing. Every nuance of the playing is retained. NO OTHER LIBRARIES DO THIS. Most libraries are either quantized, have very little dynamic range, no swing, few if any controllers applied, no pitch bend or aftertouch, etc.

What Keyfax did was hire top-notch world-renowned players and hook them up to the most expressive MIDI devices possible, so that everything could be captured.

The result is about the same as recording audio.

Many of the MIDI Libraries out there are programmed, not played.