MIDI out of AU Plug-ins?

[wdegillio]

I was auditioning the snapshots of the (free) NI Reaktor ensemble SilverbirdLive recently (a cool drum machine) and noticed on its panel the option to enable MIDI Out of its internal sequencer. Since it has quite a few cool presets, I tried to find a way to record its MIDI output to a DP MIDI track, but had no success, since the MIDI output of Reaktor does not show up as an input to a MIDI track (even after enabling Multi-Record). After some web research, I read that AU plug-ins (which is how I'm running Reaktor) do not natively support MIDI out to their hosts. I found and downloaded an app called MIDIo, which is supposed to make AU MIDI output available to the DAW, but the component was not "seen" by DP. I think it may be possible to do this by running Reaktor stand-alone and then routing its MIDI and Audio into DP, but that sounds quite messy. Is there an easy way to record the MIDI output of an AU plugin in DP? (Some drum machine plugins, such as Xfer Records Nerve and Sonic Change's MicroTonic sidestep this issue, since they have a MIDI file export function.)

P.S. I did also try configuring the IAC Driver in the Audio MIDI Setup panel, but the virtual MIDI ins and outs were greyed out.

Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[musicman691]

How about using the vst version of Reaktor - would that work for the MIDI out?

[wdegillio]

Thank you for that idea, Jack. I'll give it a try. I've limited my plug-ins to Audio Units (and MAS, of course!) to prevent complication, but from what I've seen on this board, several people run VST plug-ins. So, I'll let you know how it works.

[Michael Canavan]

Thank you for that idea, Jack. I'll give it a try. I've limited my plug-ins to Audio Units (and MAS, of course!) to prevent complication, but from what I've seen on this board, several people run VST plug-ins. So, I'll let you know how it works.

A couple points here:

As it stands Audio Unit Instruments don't send MIDI out. This can probably be chalked up to Logic being a PITA this way, as it's apparently possible to do this in the AU spec, but most hosts on OSX that use AU also can use VSTi's so developers code VSTs for MIDI out only.

The latest version of DP has MIDI out 'ghosting'. Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected MIDI track in DP. Only one will actually send MIDI out. They are aware of this and mostly once you figure it out (which one is the actual port, can't remember off hand whether it's the first or last one in the list?), it's just a visual clutter issue.

[cuttime]

There's something odd about this ensemble. The AU does generate MIDI out, but only over WiFi! I know for a fact that certain AU plugs will generate Interapplication data that can be routed to DP inputs and outputs. I've used it. Hypercyclic is one that comes to mind: http://www.mucoder.net/en/hypercyclic/
I am trying to find the culprit in the Siverbird panel, but my Reaktor skills are not the best. If I find the culprit I'll report back.

[musicman691]

The latest version of DP has MIDI out 'ghosting'. Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected MIDI track in DP. Only one will actually send MIDI out. They are aware of this and mostly once you figure it out (which one is the actual port, can't remember off hand whether it's the first or last one in the list?), it's just a visual clutter issue.

I'm a little confused. Don't you mean to say: 'Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected Instrument track'? If so I've never seen this in the latest version.

[philbrown]

I don't have an answer for the OP, but I just wanted to say that I know it's possible to send MIDI out from and AU plug, as I do this with Numerology all the time. FYI Numerology started as a standalone app but now also works as a plug-in as well. Numerology is amazing, BTW.
http://www.five12.com/hq/N4

[Michael Canavan]

The latest version of DP has MIDI out 'ghosting'. Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected MIDI track in DP. Only one will actually send MIDI out. They are aware of this and mostly once you figure it out (which one is the actual port, can't remember off hand whether it's the first or last one in the list?), it's just a visual clutter issue.

I'm a little confused. Don't you mean to say: 'Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected Instrument track'? If so I've never seen this in the latest version.

You see an instrument tracks MIDI outs in the Input of a MIDI track. It's there that you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port on your VSTi.


To address the other people posting. I don't think you're 100% understanding what MIDI out means? Basically if a VSTi has a built in sequencer like a drum machine, Reaktor ensemble etc. then you in VSTs anyway can send say the Snare track to channel 16 and then use that sequence in DP to trigger a snare in Battery or some other Drum VSTi. Currently this only works with VST 2.4 in DP. Be my guest and try to get AUs to do this, but I'm willing to bet money you can't. It's got everything to do with Apples baby Logic not being a good host for AUs that can do MIDI out, therefore developers do not implement the ability in the AU version. Reaktor, the virtual instrument in question, does not do MIDI out from AU, period.

[musicman691]

The latest version of DP has MIDI out 'ghosting'. Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected MIDI track in DP. Only one will actually send MIDI out. They are aware of this and mostly once you figure it out (which one is the actual port, can't remember off hand whether it's the first or last one in the list?), it's just a visual clutter issue.

I'm a little confused. Don't you mean to say: 'Basically you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port in your MIDI In on a selected Instrument track'? If so I've never seen this in the latest version.

You see an instrument tracks MIDI outs in the Input of a MIDI track. It's there that you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port on your VSTi.

This is with vst or au format plugins? I use au format and don't see what you're talking about. Have no reason to run vst format plugins as of now.

[Michael Canavan]

You see an instrument tracks MIDI outs in the Input of a MIDI track. It's there that you'll see multiple instances of the same MIDI out port on your VSTi.

This is with vst or au format plugins? I use au format and don't see what you're talking about. Have no reason to run vst format plugins as of now.

You cannot currently run MIDI out from AU's, MIDI from, say a drum machine or step sequence in Reaktor, so of course you wouldn't see this.

I think people are really confusing what I mean by MIDI out from a virtual instrument plug in. Maschine, Geist, Reaktor all have built in sequencers, with VST you can send the pattern from a built in sequencer to a MIDI out, so a snare pattern in the VSTi can be used to sequence a drum sound in something like Battery for instance. It shows up in your MIDI tracks as Maschine Port 1 etc. and when you assign it to a track like Battery it will send the MIDI from the virtual instrument, not from the MIDI you might have on that virtual instrument track in DP.

Off the top of my head the two main differences between VST 2.4 (what DP uses) and AU are that VSTs can send MIDI out from the plug in, and AU's can have a single plug in that does mono, stereo and multiple outs etc. without separate plug ins in your plug in folder.

The original question was about AU's not sending MIDI out, and to tell the person they can is inaccurate and going to confuse them more than the person who doesn't even use AU's like that so has no reason to know they cannot send MIDI out.

[wdegillio]

Thank you for the replies to my post. Here's an update.

I attempted running Reaktor as a VST plug-in but still couldn't get MIDI out. Then, while working on an unrelated problem with some other NI software, it came to my attention that settings like MIDI ports can be configured by running the stand-alone version of the plug-in and setting the preferences there, then going back to the VST version. I'll try that this weekend and let you know.

[musicman691]

Thank you for the replies to my post. Here's an update.

I attempted running Reaktor as a VST plug-in but still couldn't get MIDI out. Then, while working on an unrelated problem with some other NI software, it came to my attention that settings like MIDI ports can be configured by running the stand-alone version of the plug-in and setting the preferences there, then going back to the VST version. I'll try that this weekend and let you know.

That's one of those oddball things with any NI vi - run in standalone first, set certain preferences there, and then run in your daw.

[philbrown]

[bayswater]

My understanding is that the AU standards does not support MIDI output, but some AU plugins can do it anyway because the developer added code to create MIDI ports that anything supporting CoreMIDI can see and use. There is also a recent addition to AU associated with MIDI effect plugins that allows MIDI to be sent to later slots in a channel strip, at least in Logic.

As for MIDIO, I thought that was specific to GarageBand.

Numerology description reads:

"Numerology 4 also adds support for Apple’s latest Audio Unit variant, the AU MIDI Effect, which allows Numerology to run as a MIDI insert within an instrument channel in LogicX (Mac OS X 10.8.5 and later). Running in this mode provides trouble-free routing and sample accurate MIDI transmission within LogicX’s instrument tracks."

[philbrown]

I think it may be possible to do this by running Reaktor stand-alone and then routing its MIDI and Audio into DP, but that sounds quite messy.

It's not that difficult. I've done this a lot, sometimes works fine, sometimes not depending on what you're trying to sync.

Run Reaktor (in this case) standalone:
Set DP to send MIDI sync via IAC.
Set Reaktor to slave to that IAC sync.
Set Reaktor's MIDI out to IAC.
Create a MIDI track in DP with its input set to receive the IAC (notes) from Reaktor
and set the output of the MIDI track to whatever VI you're trying to play in DP and enable MIDI thru.

Its been a long time since I've done this, I hope I remembered the steps.
I'm pretty sure this will work with Reaktor and you can record the MIDI into the DP track for further editing/manipulation.

EDIT:

I tried this and couldn't get it to work, specifically I was not able to get MIDI from Reaktor to DP.
Found this thread on the net that is pertinent to the conversation.
Important excerpt:

First of all, make sure the sequencer you want to use actually uses MIDI (quite a few of the sequencers used in ensembles don't).

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... ost.71496/