Printed Delay in Bounce-To-Disk Audio File

[Armageddon]

I've experienced this phenomenon since DP 3 on my G3 iMac. Bouncing audio tracks to disk appears to introduce a slight delay to the start of the bounced audio file. Back in DP 3, I would use DP to bounce certain audio tracks, like a DI'd guitar track through my MAS copy of Amplitude, then have to visually compare the start of the DI'd waveform against the bounced amp track's waveform to get them to match up, I forgot about this in DP 5 (on a different, faster computer) until I started using it to score movies. All of my bounced audio files appeared to be almost half a second off from the "live" MIDI tracks that were synced to the movie, enough to throw off a lot of my cues (unfortunately, the first time I discovered this was when I was watching the finished film). This delay isn't a big deal in regular music production, as the tracks themselves are still perfectly in sync with each other and there's no real noticeable space at the beginning of the track, but it's a huge deal if you're bouncing audio tracks in DP and then using those bounced tracks in other DAWs, or, if you're scoring to SMPTE and you expect the bounced audio file to sync up to the same starting code you were scoring from.

As I said, it's not a noticeable delay on its own, not enough to make you think "There's a space at the beginning of this" and try to edit it out. I've continued to experience this same anomaly on a variety of Macs, from versions 5 through 8, I'm currently on 9, and maybe running in 64-bit mode will change this for me. But I also recall how plugs create delays in Pro Tools, and how DP has automatic delay compensation that are probably causing this. Is anyone else experiencing the same thing, or, more importantly, has anyone figured out a way to compensate for it? Short of importing the bounced audio file and visually matching up the waveforms, like I had to do way back in DP 3, I have no idea how to get rid of it.

[Tripi]

This was a big problem in old versions of DP if you started recording a bounce, and had the WAIT FOR KEY enabled. It wouldn't record at the right point. In DP9, if you use Vienna Ensemble Pro, it always has a problem with timing if you use any input other than 1&2. Delay compensation seems to be the main culprit. Are you coming out of your plugins with an output other than 1&2?

[Henry Robinett]

Does this problem happen with VEP with real time bounce or just BTD? I almost never use BTD.


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[Armageddon]

This was a big problem in old versions of DP if you started recording a bounce, and had the WAIT FOR KEY enabled. It wouldn't record at the right point. In DP9, if you use Vienna Ensemble Pro, it always has a problem with timing if you use any input other than 1&2. Delay compensation seems to be the main culprit. Are you coming out of your plugins with an output other than 1&2?

I've never enabled "Wait For Key" or used any input other than 1 or 2. I've recently started bussing my drums and guitars to auxiliary channels, but it seems to have a delay at the beginning regardless of my setup (and across multiple generations of computers, audio interfaces and operating systems) or if I bounce to disk or freeze tracks. It may be something inherent to "Bounce to Disk" (and only noticeable when having to sync bounced audio to video, or exporting bounced audio tracks to another DAW), but I was wondering if anybody else had this experience (especially the video post and soundtrack composers among you) and what you may or may not have done to correct it.

[Tritonemusic]

...or exporting bounced audio tracks to another DAW)...

Wish I could help, but I will mention that I use BTD all the time and my bounces are always sample-accurate. They line up perfectly if I bring them into Pro Tools, for example. I'm still on DP7.24. However, I don't do any video work so don't have to sync to anything, as far as that's concerned.

I guess I just wanted you to know that, without video, BTD works for me. With video, I really don't know.

[Armageddon]

Wish I could help, but I will mention that I use BTD all the time and my bounces are always sample-accurate. They line up perfectly if I bring them into Pro Tools, for example. I'm still on DP7.24. However, I don't do any video work so don't have to sync to anything, as far as that's concerned.

I guess I just wanted you to know that, without video, BTD works for me. With video, I really don't know.

See, this is exactly what concerns me -- I've never really read anything about printed delays for bounced files inside of DP, which makes me think it's not DP, but possibly something I have consistently set wrong.

It is odd, and I've gone down the list of things I've thought it might be over the years (as I said, I've experienced this since DP 3). If I'm only using DP and mixing and bouncing inside of a single project file, there's absolutely no problem. I can bounce a track to disk, import it into the same project and it lines up perfectly. I have yet to try bouncing an entire mix, importing the bounce back into the project and seeing how it lines up with the individual audio tracks -- if the delay is noticeable there, I can at least visually line up the waveforms and see by just how much it is, then edit that delay off of the beginning of the bounced track. Not an ideal solution, but if it's a consistent amount, I can at least feel confident in editing bounced files in a two-track editor and know they'll line up via SMPTE numbers or if I import them into other DAWs.

My other solution is, I'm about to upgrade to PT 12 for audio work, although the delays in PT are well-documented.

[Don T]

Hello,
For me it depends on the routing during BTD. Plugs can cause latency, external loops can cause latency. The problem is that Delay Compensation is based on delaying all tracks to match the latency caused by plugin processing. You may have to freeze your tracks to eliminate plugin latency. Also, Quicktime, depending on version, can cause latency when playing audio. I always import movie audio and sync to that. BTD will be in sync to that and the tracks lay back into Premier or FCP in sync. Your movie timeline sorta represents realtime, and the computer is always behind.
You can also measure your latency then adjust your record offset timing in SETUP > CONFIGURE AUDIO SYSTEM > FINE TUNE AUDIO I/O TIMING. Then your bounce should be dead on.

[Armageddon]

You can also measure your latency then adjust your record offset timing in SETUP > CONFIGURE AUDIO SYSTEM > FINE TUNE AUDIO I/O TIMING. Then your bounce should be dead on.

Never thought to try this! I forgot to mention, I actually bounce all my VIs an instrument at a time to audio, import the audio into mono or stereo audio tracks, then mix everything as audio only. For film work, and obviously, to take advantage of the time-saving measures, I'll freeze a few tracks, if necessary, but bounce everything to disk from the VIs' MIDI tracks. I'm hoping I can bounce a mix, then re-import it into the bounced mix into the project and somehow figure out the latency time between the live mix and the bounced mix.