All Notes Off MIDI question (resolved)

[Phil O]

Please forgive my ignorance. MIDI is NOT my thing. With that said, I hope my questions don't sound stupid.

I'm working with a client right now that has a Roland D-20. It's sending frequent All Notes Off messages and they are causing all sorts of problems.
First question - Can I delete these from the MIDI tracks without causing worse problems?
And second - Can I filter these out with the input filter so they don't get recorded in the first place, and if so, how?

Thanks

[stubbsonic]

That's a weird one. Usually a "Panic" button sends out the all-notes off in a stuck-note situation. Having them come in via sequence is unusual. I don't know why anyone would want to record them anyway. Some "All-Notes-Off" commands sends lots of note-offs! What are you seeing in the MIDI tracks?

[bayswater]

There is a "all notes off" MIDI Control Change message. The value is 123 or 7B. It's listed with the MODE messages, like Omni, Poly, etc. The Roland might send that out, but I don't know why DP would record it. You certainly wouldn't want a sequencer recording and sending that message out, except by purposely hitting the panic button.

Maybe use MIDI Monitor to see if and when message is being sent out, and whether DP is actually sending it.

I don't see an obvious selection in the DP MIDI filter (or the MIDI Monitor filter) to address All Notes Off messages. In fact it would probably be bad form for an app to filter it out -- sort of defeats the purpose.

Probably fixing the D-20 is the way to deal with this.

[MIDI Life Crisis]

Check the commands window. Maybe a MIDI note is triggering it?

[Phil O]

Thanks, guys. I'm assuming it's safe to delete these. I'll be making a copy of one of the songs and experimenting with exactly that.

After finding a few obscure messages on other boards, it seems this was a problem with some older keyboards (although I didn't find the D-20 mentioned specifically). I don't understand the details, but apparently this was implemented by some manufacturers in order to solve some other problem, but it didn't work out so well.

There is a "all notes off" MIDI Control Change message. The value is 123 or 7B. It's listed with the MODE messages, like Omni, Poly, etc. The Roland might send that out, but I don't know why DP would record it. You certainly wouldn't want a sequencer recording and sending that message out, except by purposely hitting the panic button.

I don't see an obvious selection in the DP MIDI filter (or the MIDI Monitor filter) to address All Notes Off messages. In fact it would probably be bad form for an app to filter it out -- sort of defeats the purpose.

Probably fixing the D-20 is the way to deal with this.

The Event List just says "All Notes Off" (with no symbol) and if I do a Search, searching for "All Notes Off" under Mode Change finds it.

What are you seeing in the MIDI tracks?

Just a rectangle with "A.N.Off" in it. They seem to appear when a chord is released, as in multiple keys released at the same time. I'm seeing anywhere from 10 to 100's per MIDI track.

Thanks again guys,
Philippe

[Phil O]

Well, I just found this post on Analogue Heaven from 2006:

"Oakley sound writes:
>>Personally, I wouldn't bother. I use my D-50 almost only as a controller these days. Although, I should add that the D-20 also probably sends 'all notes off' every time you take your hands off the keyboard. This can send some VSTi plugs mad, so you normally have to filter it out somehow.<<

Ah ha. You just confirmed what I've suspected about some of my Roland keyboards and was about to try to confirm what was actually causing the problem. It's that damn "all notes off" crap that Roland seems to send. My Roland RD-1000 piano also has that problem. And TC-Helicon released some ROM upgrade to solve some kind of Roland A-70 MIDI controller keyboard incompatibility, which may also be that same problem, but I need to test mine and see if it's the same problem."

[bayswater]

The Event List just says "All Notes Off" (with no symbol) and if I do a Search, searching for "All Notes Off" under Mode Change finds it.

So you should be able to filter out Mode Changes, as long as you don't need other messages in that class, which seems unlikely.

[Phil O]

Thanks B. I'll give that a try.

P

[bayswater]

Well, I just found this post on Analogue Heaven from 2006:

Interesting. I had a D-110 for a very long time, which was pretty much the same overall architecture as the D10/20. I never saw that problem. I don't remember, but maybe there is a control to turn mode change messages off.

[Phil O]

So you should be able to filter out Mode Changes, as long as you don't need other messages in that class, which seems unlikely.

Thanks B. It worked like a charm.
Philippe